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The Players Council: A proposal.; please read and comment
Topic Started: Feb 16 2009, 03:12 PM (3,386 Views)
Dragon
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[cool]

I Want to say one main thing about the idea for the council and for the development of new sets. I really want to see the tcgplayer.com players brought into this. For far too long our community has been split between the realmers and tcgplayer.com people. If you really want your ideas to work and move forward you need to bring both sides together. Cliff you know I love you brother but IF you are put in charge of this please remember that tcgplayer has a huge base of people who have been making well balanced fantasy cards for years. Guglio is probably THE person I would want leading this new set design. He knows his DC U inside and out and he's been making fantasy cards/sets for as long as I've known him.

As for the council itself please do not think lowly of the people from tcgplayer.com simply b/c they decided not to go to realms. When MOR first came out and Realms/tcgplayer started I used both sites. However people like bizzarro forced me away b/c he would say whatever he wanted and if I said anything back I was banned. I was never a "pro" player, however, that is b/c I hate to travle. Those of you who met me at MWNY should know that I know a thing or two about this game and how it should be played. I'm the guy who can play the tier 1 decks if he wanted to and would win with them but I mostly prefer to just play for fun. I feel that is how most of the members of tcgplayer are. We simply just want to have fun and that is a voice that needs to be heard on your council.

Again All I'm saying is we need to ensure these two sites are used together and not as seperate families like in the past. If it is treated as such then you will lose a lot of good people who will decide to do their own thing and make their own council (they've already been talking about that).

If you have anyquestions about what I said or just wanna chat you can either IM or Email me at: mattwishart@hotmail.com
Or my X-Box gamer tag is: VSU Dragon Pro

I will do my best to check this site but please know that I will always use tcgplayer.com first as it has been my home for 5 years now. That is why I put out my email b/c it is the fastest easiet way to contact me.
Thank you,
VSU Dragon OUT!
Edited by Dragon, Feb 16 2009, 09:23 PM.
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vashstampede99
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carlosthedwarf
Feb 16 2009, 08:01 PM
vashstampede99
Feb 16 2009, 07:26 PM

I would be worried though that someone would want to abuse their power, I mean yes another member could keep them in line but what prevents a Virus from spreading? I mean I do not know this is just my worry and my concern is that something would happen.

My other concern and this is the part I am worried about stepping on feet so if you are easily offended please stop reading now:
But to me if you jump at the idea to do this like to be part of the council is that good or bad? I mean are you in it to help the game or in it for just wanting I guess best way to say it is power? I hope you get what I mean, if this goes threw who chooses the council? What gives them the right? I mean there is a judge here and I am to but I am a lower level judge and will admit that, and he is a high level judge and all, but knows very little on the game. So some times a title does not always work, I mean I ask a lot to learn more which is why I am a lower level but still....This is just a rant with a question and again sorry if anyone was upset with anything. I just want this game to live and not die, and I want it to be able to grow still with all of us. I dont want a council that may kill it.
Vash - you aren't the only one with those fears, believe me. But let me lay this on ya':

Steve and I have TOTAL CONTROL over this site. We can erase posts we don't agree with. We can change what you write. We can delete members we don't like.

But we don't.

People can sit around and worry about someone taking control and abusing power. But until I see it actually happen here - I'm not going to let it slow me down.

What will kill this game's rebirth faster than anything is "inaction".

Yes - abuse COULD happen. That's why we build in some checks and balances. But at some point, if we want this game to succeed, we'll need to start trusting each other.

Not every step we take as a group is going to be perfect. We ARE going to make mistakes. As long as we learn from them and move forward, we'll be OK.
Well thanks for saying that, it shows there is a lot of thought into it and running with it.

I do want to comment on something about copyright just to let everyone know something.
As long as no profit is made there is not copyright problems once one dollar is made in it then we hit copyright part. Because I see a few of us are worried about copyright parts.

Just an FYI because I had to learn that threw a couple of my teachers lol companies tried to sue them for money but lost big time because they never made money if we use whatever money that tournements pull in for prizes and that only then copyright can not really come into play.

And like I have said before I will lend any and all talents I have to the table.

Like you guys have said the time for action is now.
The time to pick up and fight is now.
So I am all for it.

Vash The Stampede
Humaniod Typhoon
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HomerJ
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Dragon
Feb 16 2009, 09:20 PM
[cool]

..... I really want to see the tcgplayer.com players brought into this. .....
I completely agree that the TCGPlayer people need to be involved. Unfortunately, I think the only way to do this is to get them over to VsSystem.org

I know it's probably going to reduce usage of another site, but we can't move forward if there are groups scattered across the interwebs. We need a single site for discussions, polls and press releases. And VsSystem.org needs to be that place.
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tchalla
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By all means, make fan cards. Just be wary of using illegally obtained images.

Remember, UDE warned us publicly about using images that we don't have the rights to, way back when back when Miranda was helping out as a liaison to the powers that be.

I'm saying simply that if we have a better method available that you can guarantee is not going to cause any trouble, why risk one that we know for sure is illegal and CAN be shut down?

Do you think the "fun" level is worth that? That same effort can be applied to virtualizing older cards instead of using illegal art work, violating any kind of IP laws that could ultimately lead to this new site facing legal threats for supporting that type of behavior.

Star Wars, the BIGGEST licensing property in the world (ok, one of the biggest if it isn't THE biggest) gives permission to the Star Wars players committee to make Virtual cards with their blessings, however they aren't allowed to use artwork without permission, nor are they allowed to make cards that Lucasfilms doesn't approve of. For instance, they were allowed to make a "Mandolorian" card, but not a Jango Fett card. THAT is what I'm trying to warn you guys of over here. Keep moving forward. Be careful what you move forward through.

Lots of good intentions here. Just be aware, is all. Ok?
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stubarnes
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tchalla
Feb 16 2009, 11:41 PM
Lots of good intentions here. Just be aware, is all. Ok?
We are aware, thanks. Just let us try to make it work. Ok?

[ballet] [ballet] [ballet]
Edited by stubarnes, Feb 16 2009, 11:51 PM.
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tchalla
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Dude, I'm one of the biggest forces pushing for success(just to be clear, I'm not claiming to be big. I'm simply referring to months of efforts to try to get a smooth transition under way. Nothing more is intended to be implied.) I'm not even CLOSE to trying to stand in the way.

But it is a fool's errand to ignore the legality of certain actions. Do you honestly feel that is time better spent working on illegal cards and file sharing than moving in ways that Marvel and DC CANNOT take legal actions over?

Wouldn't it be more logical to work on the things that carry NO legal ramifications?

Unless of course you are still trying to kill the game, stu. In which case, it would make sense for you to support actions that stand to hurt the efforts and expenses that Mig and Kamiza have put forth here.

I'm begging you guys, think it through and do the legal legwork. Contact Marvel and Time/Warner to get their blessings. It isn't worth the negative side effects to do a lot of work and then get it snatched away in a horrific way, is it?
Edited by tchalla, Feb 17 2009, 12:05 AM.
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stubarnes
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Feb 17 2009, 12:04 AM
Unless of course you are still trying to kill the game, stu. In which case, it would make sense for you to support actions that stand to hurt the efforts and expenses that Mig and Kamiza have put forth here.
Curtis, please. For the love of the game, for the love of the community.

Make your points and then let them go. We don't need to stir up conflict and negative feelings this time around.

Thank you.

We understand your concerns. We thank you for voicing them. Now, please, let us get on with it.

Thanks again.

[coolguy] [coolguy] [coolguy]
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Dragon
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Feb 16 2009, 10:59 PM
Dragon
Feb 16 2009, 09:20 PM
[cool]

..... I really want to see the tcgplayer.com players brought into this. .....
I completely agree that the TCGPlayer people need to be involved. Unfortunately, I think the only way to do this is to get them over to VsSystem.org

I know it's probably going to reduce usage of another site, but we can't move forward if there are groups scattered across the interwebs. We need a single site for discussions, polls and press releases. And VsSystem.org needs to be that place.
[cool]
Homer why does it have to be like that? Why not fully incorporate both sites? tcgplayer. come is a well established easy to navigate site. There is absolutly no problem with utilizing that tremendous assist. If the people who are on this site also go over and contribute to tcgplayer then there is no chance of that section "being shut down" Chedy does not close off sections of his website. There is no need for it. He may stop updating it but he does not shut those sections down. Having a resource as great as tcgplayer.com is not something to be over looked. I'm sorry but again unless you guys only want part of those who are left you will need to make this a true partnership between the TWO websites that are still standing. This is not that hard of a proposition its more like common sense. Right now this game needs everyone who is willing to still play to play the game period. So again you must make sure to fully incorporate both sites or else your only going to cause more problems and confusion.

Now @Tchalla:
There is nothign illegal about making sliders to slip over the front of the card that alters its text box and stats. However, I think it does start to spill over into the grey area if you alter names/versions. That is where the line needs to be drawn. Otherwise all that is being done is mere suggestions as to how to continue to use the cards that you already own. Think of it like putting sleaves on the cards. Does that upset anyone? Yes. Is is illegal? no. Why does it upset them? Well the back of the card is the advertising where it says in big bold letters VS System. When you sleave it your covering that up. If the "new sets" are kept to being simple sliders that go over pre-existing cards then there should not be any legal ramifications. However, if we try to create new cards and put artwork on to them is distribute them then we could get into trouble. So sadly what that means for Miguel and myself is that we will never see Puck in Vs System form and that sir is something that is very sad.
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stubarnes
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Feb 17 2009, 12:09 AM
Why not fully incorporate both sites?
I, for one, would love that. I am pretty sure that everyone would have no problem with it. I think, however, that vssystem.org will probably end up being more of a "central hub", and tcgplayer will continue to be a valuable alternative.

If you can see another scenario to "fully incorporate" both sites, we would all love to hear them.
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Orange_Soda_Man
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@ the issue of one site vs multiple sites:

Everyone who plays this game and uses the internet for this game in any way shape or form should and really should join this site.

That doesn't mean you can't be active in other sites.
I'm still active over at vsrealms.com; I still join in at the threads over there, trades, vs philosophy etc. I do all of that over here too.

[imo] we all should pay enough attention to this site to respect the efforts of those of us who want to try and make a fan-based system work.

If you're gonna run an event, and you post a thread over at vsrealms.com or tcgplayer.com and you're promoting it, you better damn well post a thread HERE about it.

Point being: it's ok to spread the vs love around a bit, but we should never be exclusive about anything.
Edited by Orange_Soda_Man, Feb 17 2009, 12:26 AM.
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carlosthedwarf
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VSU - I know you've had problems with Realmers in the past, but so far, in this new post-UDE age, TCGPlayers are the only ones talking about this "TCG/VsSystem.org" divide. I'm not sure why. VsSystem.org is NOT realms. We have some realms members, we have some TCG members, and we have some who are both.

I totally respect the TCGPlayer base for sticking with the site they love (and have loved for a long time). But I worry when vs players seemingly put site loyalty over the health of the game.

If an idea sprouts over here, Vs-fans who want to be a part of it will have to check in and put their 2 cents in here. At least, until the idea becomes big enough for us to "unleash". When it's good enough, we'll definitely run it by the other two sites. But it makes no sense, logistically, to start a thread with a half-baked idea in three different places and expect it to come to fruition that way.

And this holds true for both sites.

If Guglio wants to help on an idea that sprouted over here, he'll have to come here to do it if he wants to get in on the ground floor. It will also mean that if someone wants to put their 2 cents in on a "Valentines Day Part 2" contest, they'll have to go to TCGPlayer to do it.

Steve and I dig TCGPlayer.com. It's a great site and has a great community. We linked it to our home page. We're promoting the Valentine's contest TCG is putting on. And the raid deck...my god - it's awesome and I can't wait to talk it up on this site AND my blog.

But coming over here and saying "hey - don't forget about "us""...well, we can't really afford an "us" and "them" mentality any more. You know? I want to move forward with everyone who loves Vs. I don't care which site a good idea starts on.
Edited by carlosthedwarf, Feb 17 2009, 12:39 AM.
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Dragon
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stubarnes
Feb 17 2009, 12:15 AM
Dragon
Feb 17 2009, 12:09 AM
Why not fully incorporate both sites?
I, for one, would love that. I am pretty sure that everyone would have no problem with it. I think, however, that vssystem.org will probably end up being more of a "central hub", and tcgplayer will continue to be a valuable alternative.

If you can see another scenario to "fully incorporate" both sites, we would all love to hear them.
[coolguy]
well Stu that is easy enough to handle. start topics on both threads and link back and forth. Has anyone contacted Chedy yet to talk to him about having links between the two sites to make them mutally benifical? I have his phone number if you need it so that you can work out the details. He is a very easy guy to work with. Don't only start forums in one area start them in both. Heck look at some of the great discussion I've managed to get going in recent weeks over there about things such as your favorite set, best mini-team etc. . . I probably should have come over here and posted the topic and linked it back to the tcgplayer thread. However, I know that a lot of the people over here don't even have a tcgplayer account and that really makes these kinds of efforts hard on both sides.

@ Orange Soda Man:
So what of all the work I've personally put in at tcgplayer? Is that just to be ignored? I've spent 5 years on that site and keeping the peace for about 3. Please don't sit there and say that we need to vist one site and not the other.
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stubarnes
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Feb 17 2009, 12:33 AM
I worry when vs players seemingly put site loyalty over the health of the game.
It is something we need to recognize as soon as it pops up, because it has ALWAYS damaged the community, and it often has nothing to do with site loyalty.

The personalities involved in Vs. System tend to draw lines in the sand over everything.

We need to grow out of it. We can grow out of it. We will grow out of it.

Just watch us.

[cloud9] [cloud9] [cloud9]
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stubarnes
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Feb 17 2009, 12:34 AM
start topics on both threads and link back and forth.
I already do that.

You really do seem to be a bit over-sensitive about this, but that's okay. I understand all the effort you have put in, and I understand the need to get exposure for your stuff.

We will all try to do the best we can to include everyone. Please, let's not nitpick about it and cause problems that are not really there. We can come together as a community this time, especially since the greed should be gone by now.

Onward!

[chef] [chef] [chef]
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Dragon
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Listen I'm all for this site. My activity alone should show that. What I'm saying is that you have people over there who have endured years of abuse and put downs. Whether you want to admit it or not you have to recgonize it. You come from realms and so too does this site. What I'm saying is to make this transition better is you need to involve people from both areas. Wether you want to admit it or not we are still a community divided. All I'm saying and all I've said from the start is that we need to bring these two areas together. Is there anything wrong with that? If not then why are people being so defensive about it.
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