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The Players Council: A proposal.; please read and comment
Topic Started: Feb 16 2009, 03:12 PM (3,383 Views)
BatHulk
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I really don't know about the whole banning/errata thing.

I've said why over on Realms and I just don't think there have been enough events to prove what is exactly broken about Exiles. EvilDave Theory and MWS games are one thing... actual matches are yet another.

I honestly feel that this decision should be left up to the regional TOs until a bigger event has been planned or there is enough proof and details about what needs to be banned.

Just like it's difficult to get an all-new fan-based set into official formats, the same goes for a universal ban/errata not delivered by UDE.

As for Realms/VsSystem.org/TCGPlayer.com... just let it be. There are a few problems with this site (no email notification, posts take up too much room, slow-loading) that I had with TCGPlayer so that's why I liked Realms so much. I'll still post over there until Tony closes it (it has not died yet guys) but I come over here to see the latest.

I'm gonna open up vssystem.us and give you guys more stuff to complain about (take that OrangeSodaMan.com!!!).

Whatever happens... know that no matter how much we like to iSlap™ each other... we all just want VS to keep going.
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I_Avian
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Can I suggest that we start a new thread with a poll on the council proposal?

With the options being

1) Total Support of Kamiza's Proposal
2) General Support, but some amendments needed
3) Support the idea of a council but not the proposal
4) Oppose the idea of any council

or something to that effect.

There's a lot of silent people in this discussion, a poll might bring them out of the woodwork, even just to cast a vote. I for one would like to see how those numbers fall.

Re: The Realms/TCGplayer divide, I absolutely fail to get where it came from (I joined both initially, just ended up posting on Realms more because it had more traffic, though I still lurk around tcgplayer) and why it's still relevant to people. We all need to be in one place to make this work. VsSystem.org is neither the Realms or TCGPlayer, but it is the Vs site that will endure and is best equipped to be our new home.
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Dragon
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DarkSolrac
Feb 17 2009, 04:38 AM
[confused] i think the council is a good idea and voting on who is in it is a good idea, the whole vssystem, TCG player, relms topic was pretty intense what if we vote in ppl from all 3 sites? and there jobs will be to make sure the voices of there sites are herd (tallying votes make sure valid points are brought up and what knot) and since the council will have to comunicate out side forms (via emails and phone calls and what have yous no 1 site will really need to be a main focus will it? i mean to promote the efforts of this council u have to get word out to all the VS players and has been stated b4 ppl just like there sites more it happens the council members from each site will do what they were voted for and bring word to there sites is that a bad idea?)
[cool]
I fully support this idea. I truly believe that the council needs to have a rep from all three sites that are still used. This is the best idea I've heard on the topic and I think these seats should be added and it is the responcibility of those people to ensure that their site and the mother site (this one) are on the same page and information is being shared as needed. If they do a poor job of that then they are fired and someone new steps in.
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Savage Tofu
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carlosthedwarf
Feb 17 2009, 07:15 AM
OK - "the majority of Vs players on this site who care".

If you've got a better suggestion to getting a solid read on everyone's feeling on this, I'm all ears... [bounce]
We need a council to make the final vote on things. However the whole council thing is moot unless we have events to look forward too. Otherwise why would anyone actually follow a council?

1) lets establish that there will be something @ Gen con. It is 6 months away. Lets figure out who will be a judge, To & Prizes which most of can be TBA. We just need to commit to this. Where is Worlds this year?

2) Everyone who wants to should become a Vs citizen. In this idea everyone (all 29+ of us can babel on about the issues & even bring up issues) This could work much like a house of representatives. Then a council declares a vote on a matter & all Vs citzens would then get 2 shots to share how they feel (most of us feel the same here) & then the council can vote one way or another based on what they have heard from us. This could also keep discussions civil & not so long & drawn out. Let me be clear again that those things which are proposed really should only be commented on twice. Once for intial thought & 2nd time for final thought.

3) 5 council members would be nice but that may not be realistic. 2 or 3 may be more realistic. It doesn't matter who is on council right now. I would imagine that whomever gets it will do the same things anyone else would do. Running a tournament would just be a fun & friendly way of getting the ball rolling. Wouldn't it be better to play Vs then argue about who should be on the council?

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vashstampede99
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CaptainIreland
Feb 17 2009, 05:01 AM
vashstampede99
Feb 16 2009, 09:41 PM
I do want to comment on something about copyright just to let everyone know something.
As long as no profit is made there is not copyright problems once one dollar is made in it then we hit copyright part. Because I see a few of us are worried about copyright parts.
This is not true. It CAN be a problem even if no profit is made.

Just clearing up this misunderstanding. Carry on.
Maybe true I only know part of the law since thats what I have seen, I would be glad to look into the copy right laws out there, but the use of a picture can only use of it usually is okay now depending on what its used for etc.... I know like the Obama pictures right now is facing copyright problems.

Profit is what drives them usually now if we are worried about art why not get artist to draw new ones? People who like to draw and can draw us some cards?? I bet there is talent out there. I can draw stick figures and man will they be awesome stick figures....

I am saying though I will be glad to see on it and if thats what holds this game back that can be fixed i bet.

And yes a council does need to start moving forward soon if we want something from it
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tchalla
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Dragon
Feb 17 2009, 12:09 AM

Now @Tchalla:
There is nothign illegal about making sliders to slip over the front of the card that alters its text box and stats. However, I think it does start to spill over into the grey area if you alter names/versions. That is where the line needs to be drawn. Otherwise all that is being done is mere suggestions as to how to continue to use the cards that you already own. Think of it like putting sleaves on the cards. Does that upset anyone? Yes. Is is illegal? no. Why does it upset them? Well the back of the card is the advertising where it says in big bold letters VS System. When you sleave it your covering that up. If the "new sets" are kept to being simple sliders that go over pre-existing cards then there should not be any legal ramifications. However, if we try to create new cards and put artwork on to them is distribute them then we could get into trouble. So sadly what that means for Miguel and myself is that we will never see Puck in Vs System form and that sir is something that is very sad.
If you make a reproduction of licensed artwork, it IS definitely illegal. And if you do so with the intention of distributing it and circumventing licensing rights, it is a serious crime. It is, essentially, bootlegging. And if this site supports doing that, they put themselves at serious risks. When we were warned against using the UDE owned VS insignia, I did a little research. The cease and desist order is where most IP owners start. It costs them far less to issue a warning than it does to drag you to court. However, once they issue the warning, if you ignore it, sometimes they will find it worth the effort to have their rights protected.

Even if you aren't making money on it, because by making illegal copies and giving it away for free, you are actually lowering the value of their property.

Just to be clear on how illegal that it really is to make "little slips of paper to slip in to a card sleeve. Just using the text isn't illegal, as that can fall under the category of altering the card's intended function and that is MUCH harder to argue than copying licensed artwork and distributing it.
Edited by tchalla, Feb 18 2009, 12:15 AM.
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tchalla
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The people willing to lead need to simply step forward and do so. No voting needed. This doesn't need to be a democracy. People keep getting hung up on that. TOs didn't check with the whole area and check to see if everyone was cool with them running an event. They simply scheduled an event at the best time they could, taking in to consideration the best interests and scheduling needs of those they could.

If Miggy and Kammy want to step up and say that from here on forward they are selecting their council members, then DO IT. All of the waiting around is what will continue to have players bleeding out in to other games. That's an easy one to see, if you just look. VS continues to lose players every day. It is how it will be from here on out. The opportunity to stop that is RIGHT NOW.

There doesn't need to be a vote. Simply like-minded people willing to sit down and discuss what they'd like to see done.

If you guys want to abuse trademark infringement, go for it! If you want to look in to Virtual Cards, again, go for it. If you decide the card pool is fine as it is and you want to push the game as it is, then go for it.

Waiting on the community to rally behind you is a mistake. Waiting on people to agree on what they think is best for the game is a mistake.

I assure you that you guys already have all of the support you need to move things forward. You have built an awesome site. You have the knowledge, skill and dedication to the game to help see it in to next year with clever and well thought out event structuring.

My personal time for VS will be dedicated to running local level events primarily, though there will be larger events for out of towners to attend, should they decide. My hall closet is filling up with prizes for the end of the year already.

DO NOT WAIT for a democratic vote before you take action. You cannot accomplish much if you do so. This is not a case where the people must be heard or they'll leave. Those that have stuck with VS are here for the duration and if a group gets together and agrees to use a core system of organization, I assure you that your players will rally behind you then.

Peace to all, ya'll cool cats and groovy chicks.

Love peace and chicken grease.
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stubarnes
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tchalla
Feb 18 2009, 12:28 AM
Waiting on the community to rally behind you is a mistake. Waiting on people to agree on what they think is best for the game is a mistake.

I assure you that you guys already have all of the support you need to move things forward. You have built an awesome site. You have the knowledge, skill and dedication to the game to help see it in to next year with clever and well thought out event structuring.
Very well said. I agree totally.
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Shadowtrooper
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Shouldn't we have different threads for al the things happening here? I would like to see a thread about the Blink problem with a link to the poll that was started here and links to the What beats Exiles threads in VsRealms. A bunch of useful information has been gathered in those threads and it would be wise to gather it up.

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Savage Tofu
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I agree with Curtis.

There are 2 people on this site (Dwarf & Kamiza) that when they speak get peoples attention. When you guys speak it comes as if you are one with authority. At least you guys could be intermediate council members until an actual political system could be instated. If you guys move most of us will follow.

Why don't we just say that is the way it is & if you 2 want to appoint any more counsel members just pm them & let them know they are it & lets get started.

We all need someone or some group that can be the final voice. We need somebody to complain to.

Are you 2 interested?



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tchalla
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Savage Tofu
Feb 18 2009, 02:23 AM
I agree with Curtis.

There are 2 people on this site (Dwarf & Kamiza) that when they speak get peoples attention. When you guys speak it comes as if you are one with authority. At least you guys could be intermediate council members until an actual political system could be instated. If you guys move most of us will follow.

Why don't we just say that is the way it is & if you 2 want to appoint any more counsel members just pm them & let them know they are it & lets get started.

We all need someone or some group that can be the final voice. We need somebody to complain to.

Are you 2 interested?



There you have it:

Miguel and Steve, you have no choice. You have had greatness thrust upon you. :)

Long live the King! I'd say "Long live the Queen" but those chaps across the pond get their panties in a bunch so easily already any way..
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HeraldofDoom
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So is Steve the King of VS, and Miguel the Queen?

[laugh]

I kid, I kid.

I fully support the idea of starting the council off with Steve and Miguel.

Others I think should be considered:

Flashback81
OrangeSodaMan
Shadowtrooper
HeroComplex
HomerJ
Captain Comet
Gday

Also, to note, I think that there should be sub-committees made by the leaders of each group (Rules/TOs/Card Design, etc) to help out by "regionalizing" everything. Of course, this step shouldn't be taken until everything else is in place.

My two cents. [fro]
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DarkSolrac
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HeraldofDoom
Feb 18 2009, 01:18 PM
Others I think should be considered:

Flashback81
OrangeSodaMan
Shadowtrooper
HeroComplex
HomerJ
Captain Comet
Gday

Also, to note, I think that there should be sub-committees made by the leaders of each group (Rules/TOs/Card Design, etc) to help out by "regionalizing" everything. Of course, this step shouldn't be taken until everything else is in place.

My two cents. [fro]
I 2nd all those nominated [bounce] [coolguy] good idea
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Shadowtrooper
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HeraldofDoom
Feb 18 2009, 01:18 PM
So is Steve the King of VS, and Miguel the Queen?

[laugh]

I kid, I kid.

I fully support the idea of starting the council off with Steve and Miguel.

Others I think should be considered:

Flashback81
OrangeSodaMan
Shadowtrooper
HeroComplex
HomerJ
Captain Comet
Gday

Also, to note, I think that there should be sub-committees made by the leaders of each group (Rules/TOs/Card Design, etc) to help out by "regionalizing" everything. Of course, this step shouldn't be taken until everything else is in place.

My two cents. [fro]
Me? What did I do to deserve to be in this list? I mean thanks but there are people who have done far more than me for the game. I am humbled, but seriously? I mean I have no TO skills, a bunch of players know the rules better than I do, I think I would do a crappy job at designing cards, and.. wow me?

Funniest joke in years.
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Savage Tofu
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I would be more then happy to be an advisor to the counsel. Everyone needs to bounce ideas off a neutral party.
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