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| The Players Council: A proposal.; please read and comment | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 16 2009, 03:12 PM (3,381 Views) | |
| Shadowtrooper | Feb 19 2009, 06:10 PM Post #106 |
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I Hate Rebel Scum!
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Cherries, yum!!!
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| captain_comet | Feb 20 2009, 07:12 PM Post #107 |
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Senior Member
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Well as I'm reading through the thread I will be happy to accept any role wth DSM2. Being the Superman fan I am I'd love to revisit the supporting characters, and tweak some up such as Glorious Godfrey, Persuader, and the Deep Six theme. |
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| HomerJ | Feb 20 2009, 08:57 PM Post #108 |
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Elite Member
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As long as the Deep Six become playable, I'm with you 110%! Btw, after reviewing the DSM and MSM sets, I think that a good 50% of both sets' characters could be saved simply by adding +1/+1 to the stats. Unfortunately, the other 50% are pretty much dookie. So, when do we get started on DSM2!? I'm excited to move forward. Oh, and I can't wait to hear comments from the Episode 73 of TRHC. Richard Vaughn, our friend and mentor, had some great insight into "The Council" and I'm curious about responses. |
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| kariggi | Feb 20 2009, 10:33 PM Post #109 |
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Hero For Hire
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My only concern on a redo of this set is Darkseid Elite, Darkseid has realy been brought up to speed over the years, and without care could easily become far too dominant a player. |
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| Dragon | Feb 21 2009, 07:04 AM Post #110 |
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First a post from Neil who can't log in here: http://forum.tcgplayer.com/showpost.php?p=1668163&postcount=7 Now Carlos's responce: http://forum.tcgplayer.com/showpost.php?p=1670446&postcount=9 Now my 2 cents: The rift between tcgplayer and realms happened years ago before a lot of players started. As we all know both sites have had some real jerks. People who are just flat out mean. I have said it before that I didn't like realms b/c of the way that people would talk down to "noobs" I have always been the person looking to help not to insult (I guess that is why I'm a teacher). Members such as Bizzaro #98 (or what ever the number was) did not make me feel comfortable and tcgplayer did. I personally would have gone to realms probably at some point if not for Mike Lopez. While I've never met him personally I truly consider the man to be a friend of mine and I enjoy the online talks we have no matter how perverse and degenerate they become. Now with that said I also know that there are a lot of Realmers who are just good people and most of the jerks have left. However, for those of us who remember them we still just have that image stuck in our brain. Most of you still remember a childhood bully and to this day hate that person. I feel this is the same sort of fashion. With that out of the way now for Neil: The council is not UDE nor will it ever be UDE. The council is more for guidance and suggestions (at least this is my take and I hope I'm not over stepping my bounds) if you don't like something they say then ignore it by all means. However, the council's main goal is to keep intrest up in the game no matter what. If that means promoting things that would make old cards better or rule changes to fix problems then so be it. If you don't like a rule change then when your sitting at your kitchen table don't follow it. It really is that simple. @Miguel: Miguel the very fact that you didn't know about this rift is why I'm saying that if you do form the council there needs to be people on it from all of the main Vs areas (.org,tcg, and realms). These should be people who are well known and liked on that site and know just about every member they have and is able to talk with them. These people need to ensure that no one is kept in the dark and really need to keep the entire community going strong into the future and keep everyone on board. If anyone has a concern they need to bring it to the council's attention so that everyone's voice is heard and treated with equal respect. Now is not the time to let old wounds hinder the future. Also I must agree before any talk of changing anything is to happen we need a council set up with an agreeable set of people sitting on it willing to take on the critisim and the duties that need to be done. It will for the most part be a thankless job with a ton of work but damn it we need to do it and we need to do it now without any more lulling about. |
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| CaptainIreland | Feb 21 2009, 07:15 AM Post #111 |
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Bizarro #98? What did he ever do?! |
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| carlosthedwarf | Feb 21 2009, 07:28 AM Post #112 |
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Alpha Flight LIVES!!
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Best post on .org so far!! (Now I AM sad the rep system is down!) |
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| Savage Tofu | Feb 21 2009, 11:32 AM Post #113 |
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Please read this whole post. I have put a lot of thought into the contents here & think there are some valid points made. OBV I want to hear your guys thoughts on these matters also. Does anyone hear like Bizarro world? I think it is a great card personally. After reading what Steve had to say it makes sense that we redo some of DSM. It seems obv that most of us in one way or another want this to be done. I have a some thoughts for consideration: 1) Why not reserve a couple cards that we can all vote on or the council can vote on or we can create that are just like Bizarro World? It got me thinking when Steve was mentioning the way the fan made Decipher SW cards were done that UDE had already done that in a weird way with Bizarro World. Wouldn't it be great to have like 10 cards that we could just add current text for? So lets at least do that for: a) 1 location b) 1 Equipment c) 1 Plot twist d) 1 Ongoing e) 1 character This could be really great & would cut down on some of the proxy time. Suggestions for what current DSM cards should get this treatment? IMHO if UDE had made 10 Bizarro World like cards in DSM it could have been salvaged. Any Thoughts? 2) There has been a lot of criticism about how many affiliations Vs has. As a solution I suggest we give many of the teams an additional affiliation especially the cards in the DSM set. So consider this: a) Team Superman also gains the JLA team affiliation b) Revenge Squad also gains the Injustice gang affiliation c) NEW GOD's could gain JLI (maybe JLA?) d) Darkseid elite could gain Secret Society Let me be clear on this then. What I am proposing here is that for DSM if we are redoing cards any card that refers to Team Superman also refers to the JLA affiliation. For Instance, Phantom Zone requires a Team Superman Character or Revenge squad character to flip. Thus we would also include IG & JLA to this. We could make this into a general ruling that way we do not have to redo all the cards. Alternatively wouldn't it be great to use "New Era" with added Team Superman affiliations? I guess I am one to believe that we had too many teams in VS. Upon much consideration on this topic I think that could have been completely avoided & still Ude could have added new teams to the mix merely by making most all cards duel affiliated. I mean shouldn't all Thor cards gain the Asguardian affiliation? Obv certain cards must stay the way they are. Mojo is one example of a card that should never have an affililaton to it. (Stupid worlds worstest!) Here are some other duel affiliations with the legacy DSM cards in mind. Gotham Knights gain JLA Teen Titans gain Outsiders Arkham gains IG or Secret Society? (Any suggestions on this one?) League of Assasins gain Gotham Knights? Consider how much better My Beloved could be? (It is either that or they don't get another affiliation?) Fearsome Five gains Secret Society? Obv there are some discrepancies here. For Instance Spoiler 2 drop for Gotham Knights has never really been on the JLA roster. However considering how many times she probably has fought along side them & for the sake of simplicity why couldn't she be added? I mean isn't it fitting that Alfred also be part of the JLA? Didn't they get a lesser character theme then you in DCL? I think if more cards had more affiliations added to them they could have seen more play especially for DSM & MSM. I know that this could make certain cards way too good but it is worth consideration especially for DSM. I know the guys from the Ring Has Chosen have argued many times that when a new Vs set came out lets say DCL you could not take most of your old DGL stuff & play them together. You can do that in MTG easily. This made it so you had to constantly buy allot of VS cards. This was probably one of the reasons Vs never retained its player base. If you missed a set in Vs it was more likely you just stopped playing altogether because it was too taxing financially to keep up. If you consider DSM the only thing it is good for now is proxies. This may have been avoided if more of the cards were duel affiliated. Comments suggestions? I probably should have started this in a new post but I figure one of you will be doing that soon enough. Joe Edited by Savage Tofu, Feb 21 2009, 11:56 AM.
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| Dragon | Feb 21 2009, 06:20 PM Post #114 |
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Savage first I like that you are tying to come up with some new ideas to help out and all, but I think we need to focus on getting the council up and running first. As for your suggestions: The Bizzarro idea is cool in theory but the cards would have to make sense for the card you do this to. Bizzarro World was great for this b/c it was always changing to keep Biz happy. To do this to other cards might not make as much sense. Now for your dual affiliation idea. I personally think that would be a very bad idea. One of the things I love about Vs is how many teams I have to choose from. Also from a playtesting PoV it would be a nightmare. There would be soooo many combos that would happen as a result of this that the errata/ban list would grow to over 50 cards with ease. While it is a very nice idea in theory I personally think it would cause more problems than it would solve. |
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| Orange_Soda_Man | Feb 23 2009, 05:58 AM Post #115 |
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Yolo Boros
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I hate for this to sound bad, but why are we even considering talking about ANOTHER new fan set at all!?? Spud and crew are working on Final Crisis. Why dance with two left feet? I thought this thread was about getting a council together. It veered off course; or if it hasn't, then maybe my logic is just messed up or I didn't read something. If this thread's #1 goal is to get together a [even short term] council together then I will delete the thread I posted. The game's been 'dead' for about a month now. Isn't it just about crunch time? |
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| HotDave | Feb 25 2009, 12:50 AM Post #116 |
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I've been trolling around all 3 Vs. sites looking over opinions of the council and 'System. I'm happy to see names being circulated, which is certainly a step up from speaking broadly about the council. Then I had a thought then I'm not sure has been explored, or is even feasible due to NDA's and all that legal stuff. Has anybody asked Billy or Ben if they would mind being peripherally involved? They know the precise wording of cards and up until Blink seemed to contain power levels on cards. If we were to attempt a ban, errata, or to create new cards wouldn't a yes or no (implied, if they're apprehensive about violating their contracts) be the ultimate seal of (dis)approval of that move? |
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| TheDerangedBear | Feb 25 2009, 01:55 AM Post #117 |
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I think we need a council. I've been kinda back and forth about this and here's what I've come to The bottom line, is without a council the game will end. This is without a doubt. This is a card game, and if it's not played, it, and the community around it will disappear. It's not just that we need a unified body for organized play; if we plan on introducing new cards we will need some degree of control in that area too. There are a few arguments for why a council isn't necessary. In most of the threads I've read, the general commonality, although unspoken is: I don't think X can do it. I'm going to be honest - chime in if you disagree: there are a lot of people in the VS System community that I really like... but how many of them do I really trust to balance a card or design a set? Probably not many. I'm sure most of you feel that way too on some level. One only needs to take a tertiary glance at VSRealm's fantasy card thread to see that its quite frequently a jerk fest. (How many times have you seen oversized character with vulnerability in that forum?) This has nothing to do with the player's love for the game. The reality is that for the most part we are inexperienced volunteers who do not have much time to contribute to the design - and more importantly - development process. (This is one of the reasons that I feel we should focus on Virtual Card Updates [VCUs] before we get to making new sets. Not only are there plenty of cards out there that could use a revamp, but there's a certain 'walk before you run, run before you fly' philosophy that I think the community hasn't embraced.) I'm sure we can all acknowledge that the above things are all very true. However, the reality is at these are the lemons we've been given. On that note, I'd like to add that, regardless of what happens we are going to lose players. There will be QQing in the forums. Nothing can stop this. Any big chance will ultimately come with lossess. There is no large change that will push us forward that has a 100% retention rate. I think even if we had MOR level OP we still would not have 100% retention rate - "Ugh, I hate those pros!". On the flip side, - and this is a point I feel has been made numerous times - no motion is a 100% failure rate. I e-mailed Miguel the other day and told him he should invoke his inner George W, and while it was sort of tongue in cheek... we do need some centralized decision making. Organized Playa- Another reason I feel the council is necessary is because, honestly... a lot of people don't get it. No offense to any of you... but how many of you have actually played against Exiles? I am willing to bet way more of you have actually tried to put forth some form of errata for Blink then have actually played against Exiles. Really, there are tons of threads way back that kept talking about how Exiles are a walk in the park, and how they're dead to some random board wipe effect. Do we want to leave the maintenance of a B/R list to democracy? Probably not, cause what to do with Exiles is already pretty complex: Should blink be stamped to recruit? Should blink be once per turn? Does Mariko merit an errata? Does Sage merit an errata? Etc. Not only will it be the council's job to maintain such a list, but I think that by extension would also make it neccessary for them to run tournaments, similar to how the SWCCG PC takes care of Worlds and Nationals. Now could we certainly do this independently of each other? Yes. However, I feel that knowing that our game is still played a somewhat national level will help keep interest alive - that there is a Worlds to look forward to for example - and this can't be done without a council in my opinion. Peace, -TDB PS: IMO, the council should be Erick, Steve, and Miguel. That's it. Three people, so we have small group of odd - heheheh burn - people. These people are generally well respected, have experience, and the connections necessary for a good game. I know a lot of people have been talking about the need for someone from a TCGPlayer, and I would ask "Why?". These three people are more 'VS' then 'VSRealms' and I feel can more then adequately fulfill the needs of the community at large. Also my choice of Erick is very man gay, and may seem very arbitrary - c'mon Hoops! - but Erick has a level of CCG Experience that very of us have, plus access to the fine constructed minds of Edgeworld and access to UDE.) Edited by TheDerangedBear, Feb 25 2009, 02:03 AM.
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| Orange_Soda_Man | Feb 25 2009, 04:04 PM Post #118 |
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Yolo Boros
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I'd support that 3 man council. |
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| kariggi | Feb 25 2009, 06:26 PM Post #119 |
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Hero For Hire
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You can barely support yourself. |
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| Dragon | Feb 25 2009, 10:23 PM Post #120 |
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Hey just b/c he exploded a bottle in New York that made people think they had just been shot doesn't mean he can't support himself. Or wait does it??? |
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