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| Copyright Law/Fair Use Law/Fan Based Card Sets | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 17 2009, 05:20 AM (1,191 Views) | |
| lastchance | Feb 18 2009, 10:07 AM Post #31 |
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Wow... why don't YOU calm down? I can see that there are enough people in this community who are worried about using art from Marvel or DC. I've stated above that I have and will contact the appropriate channels to find out if we can use any artwork. Why comment about those of us who "don't get it" when I've already stated that I'm willing to do what YOU want? Jeez... I'm doing what YOU should have done already since your the one who has the biggest problem with making future cards. I realize now that we'll never be able to move forward until we really know from the companies themselves what the deal is. I personally don't know why no one has done this before (especially those people who are so worried), but maybe everyone else is just too busy to do so or maybe they are just too scared to find out the truth. Well I'm not, especially if it means moving on. |
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| lastchance | Feb 18 2009, 10:35 AM Post #32 |
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By the way T'challa... STOP acting like your right and STOP being SO condescending. At this point you have your opinions and thoughts and I have mine. Until I hear back from the companies no one will really know what we're allowed to do. I keep bringing the subject up because I keep finding more and more information to support my case. I SEE now that it won't be enough until we actually get permission from the companies and that's fine by me, but I just don't get that if people were so hard pressed against my reasons and ideas then why didn't those same people contact the companies in the first place? Personally I think that these same people have their own personal agendas to which they want to see happen to the future of this game and they want to use any excuse they can think up to stop the rest of us. Even though I have these opinions I'm still willing to put this to rest by just going to the companies and asking what their policy is and what they will allow. Then we will all know and we can move on. |
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| lastchance | Feb 18 2009, 10:58 AM Post #33 |
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Just checked with DC... they seem to be tougher to contact then Marvel. With Marvel I was just able to contact them and tell them the situation. With DC they are going to want to see whatever is intended to be release (whether it on the net or not). So there goes the theory of saving everyone time and energy (at least when it comes to making the fan based DCU set). All I can say on that subject is if the creators do get around to fixing anything like they had mentioned before, then maybe they can send those results over to DC to check it over? I'm still going to search for someone to contact through email in the mean time.
Edited by lastchance, Feb 18 2009, 11:00 AM.
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| KardKrazy | Feb 18 2009, 12:53 PM Post #34 |
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"'I've got a huge" Member
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Wow I can't believe this thread is still going. If DC or Marvel would have wanted to stop fantasy sets they would have done it YEARS ago. There have been hundreds upon hundreds of fantasy sets made in the last 4 years by people and not a single soul has been bothered by Marvel, DC, or any other company that was used as a basis. Make your fantasy sets and if all of a sudden Marvel or DC want to be pricks about us doing it they will let us know and we can stop...sharing them on the internet because if friends want to make them at home and print them out there is not a single thing Marvel or DC can do unless they want to go and search each Vs collection for fantasy cards. I guess I just think you guys are taking it a wee bit to seriously is all=P. I am sure Marvel and DC have better things to do with their time than worry about people who make about 1% of what they make a year. All we are doing are fantasy sets for fun that aren't even making money. Just my outlook on it, Kj Edited by KardKrazy, Feb 18 2009, 12:56 PM.
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| HeraldofDoom | Feb 18 2009, 01:11 PM Post #35 |
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I think we should show DC the DCU set as is, Lastchance. The only change that will probably happen will be made by Guglio and others, which will be the game text/stats of the cards (to be more balanced). The current DCU should be a good solid base to show them. |
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| HeroComplex | Feb 18 2009, 02:25 PM Post #36 |
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But again, that's not really the point. The issue in this thread was never "are Marvel and DC going to come after people who make fan sets." This thread sprang from concerns about what the Vs. community, as a whole, could do next. The issue is closer to "is the organized creation and distribution of fan sets actually legal." Some posters had asked whether or not proposed community actions were legal, and other posters had positively asserted that they were legal---that's the reason for this discussion. While there are posters who either ask the question or disagree about the answer...well, why wouldn't the thread keep going? Regardless of the likelihood of legal action, it's always reasonable to check whether or not what you're doing is legal. Btw, a personal experience---a friend of mine from a comic book forum a few years back produced a Flash-based game using the X-Men. It was free to play, and then later free to download, from his website. He'd been making it available for a few years, it had gotten a pretty decent following, and he was about to release an anticipated upgrade. But he never got the chance, as he received a C&D letter from Marvel to stop making it available. So even beyond legality, I also know for a fact that Marvel has responded to individual efforts to provide free fan-created content which used their property. Edited by HeroComplex, Feb 18 2009, 02:26 PM.
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| CaptainIreland | Feb 18 2009, 03:00 PM Post #37 |
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Wow. Pretty uncool, Lastchance... There are a myriad of reasons I personally have not contacted Marvel or DC (none of which I'll share with you, except that I don't think you would believe me if I claimed I had, being so self-righteous). Calm down before you post next time. |
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| stubarnes | Feb 18 2009, 03:24 PM Post #38 |
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I think we are seeing, here in our new home, that the "urge to say it" will never abate. The kind of people who like to talk about the game on forums like this are the kind of people who will argue and fight about every little thing, and they take every post that is contrary to their opinion as a call to arms. I don't know if we will ever be able to change that, and it is not looking good for the future of the game. We seem to still be more interested in forcing our own personal opinions on the community as bonded truth, instead of relaxing and moving forward. Oh well.
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| stubarnes | Feb 18 2009, 03:31 PM Post #39 |
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I really like that example. Here is the rub. I bet your friend really enjoyed the time he spent making and publishing the game while it lasted. Personally, I would have no problem with getting shut down like that. It would almost be a feather in my cap, like I got away with something for a while and thumbed my nose at the big boys. If parts of the community here want to go ahead with something, knowing they might get shut down at any minute, is there anything wrong with that? Wouldn't it be possible that the risk would add to the thrill? I guess it all comes down to what rewards are expected. If we can only be happy if we create some timeless thing that never gets shut down, then we should be frozen with fear and never do anything. If we can enjoy ourselves creating and sharing the game, and still be happy if we get shut down, then full speed ahead.
Edited by stubarnes, Feb 18 2009, 03:32 PM.
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| Shadowtrooper | Feb 18 2009, 03:31 PM Post #40 |
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I Hate Rebel Scum!
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Ok we know that there might be legal consequences if Marvel and DC should decide to act upon those who have made fantasy sets. Enough of that we get it, moving on. Now to all those who do know the Law do they get to outright start a Lawsuit against those who create fantasy cards, or do they first have to ask them to discontinue using their characters? Seeing as no money would be made out of the cards wouldn't this be the action they should take? Either way I would be more worried about UDE filing a Lawsuit. I mean no Vs. no NBA and according to THIS no more Yugioh. These people must be desperate for money now.
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| stubarnes | Feb 18 2009, 03:34 PM Post #41 |
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We have word from UDE, through Erick Reyes, that they will not pursue shut downs or lawsuits. If we don't make money, then Marvel or DC would (most probably) only shut us down. They would (most probably) not file suit. In my humble opinion.
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| BatHulk | Feb 18 2009, 04:42 PM Post #42 |
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That was really just a clarification of what TBS originally said with more explanation from UDE:
This doesn't necessarily protect you from legal pursuit by UDE. It just gives you a guideline on what will keep you out of trouble. The point that keeps getting missed in this thread is that technically... using other companies' images is illegal and copyright infringement. Period. Will the companies go after you? Probably not. But that doesn't mean that a chance exists that you can get C&D'ed and maybe even 'suited for monetary damages so all we're saying is be careful. Do not operate under the pretense of Fair Use etc etc. DC is pretty heavy-handed in protecting their IPs... I think if lastchance shows them DCU... it will get a bit hairy with them. That's just my feeling. |
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| KardKrazy | Feb 18 2009, 04:47 PM Post #43 |
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"'I've got a huge" Member
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Complex, I understand now that if someone was stating it was completely legal then yeah they needed to be corrected but with that my stance is this. I really don't give a hoot if it is legal or not. I love Vs, Vs is done for from a UDE stand point, soooo the only next thing to do is go with fan work. If Marvel or DC want to whine and complain that I am taking up to much of my free time making no money then fine, at that time I will stop. But until then march on my fellow fantasy card makers, march on=). later, Kj Edited by KardKrazy, Feb 18 2009, 04:47 PM.
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| Calvin Government | Feb 18 2009, 05:04 PM Post #44 |
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... so, just to check, now that we've done a bunch of work for DCU and DFC, we have to run it by DC before we ever show it to any of you, and merely hope that they approve our use of images and suchnot, and if they don't, we have to recreate as much of the set as they might want any way they want us to? I guess it's better than just flat-out saying no (though I suspect they will to some of the images), but I really do wish it had never come up in the first place. So, what exactly is the process that we have to go through now, if you could elaborate a little? What format do they want? Do they want explanations of how the teams work, or just a link to all the cards and images? Here's to hoping it will all work out for the best! Apologies if this sounded snippy... I'm just a smidge irked that there's a new potential roadblock up in this whole process. Edited by Calvin Government, Feb 18 2009, 06:29 PM.
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| tchalla | Feb 18 2009, 06:58 PM Post #45 |
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Lastchance, I'm sorry that you feel like I'm trying to rain on your parade. It sucks to me that some of you are so focused on wanting to have fun that you are willing to ignore the selfishness of not caring about the legal risks that you expose Steve and Miguel to by refusing to adhere to the law itself. I'm not presenting you with my opinion about the law. Just the law. I think that if you want to use owned images and make fan cards you should get permission first. Lucasfilms allows the SWCCGPC to continue on WITH THEIR RESTRICTED BLESSINGS because people took the time to talk to them about what they wanted to do. And even then, they only just this year managed to get the ability to use new imagery on cards. I think it sucks that VS got to this place. I think it would be fun as hell to play with new cards. I think the game could benefit on the whole by the continued production of cards by people passionate enough about the game to help the rest of us get access to those new cards. Using illegally obtained images is illegal and can lead to a lot of hardships that can be better avoided by simply opting to use a legal method instead. The statements where I used the words "I think" are my honest opinions on the subject. The statements where I try to explain that those suggesting to ignore the law and worry about it when and if it comes up, on the other hand are not opinions. Those are my efforts to help protect the people I care about, even if only in some form or fashion, from being hurt by careless actions that can be avoided by simply taking the time to observe the laws. Don't get it twisted, dude. I'm not saying you don't love VS. I'm not saying that VS shouldn't and can't be saved or anything else other than what I've said repeatedly. While you are suggesting a series of VERY personal thoughts that there are ulterior motives, you are ignoring the fact that all I'm doing is trying to help you guys NOT destroy this new place by willfully putting it at legal risk. DC has been fighting over it's ownership of characters for a few months now. They have to take actions to protect their IPs or they risk giving way to precedent which weakens the value of their IPs in future sales. Why should UDE pay a premium price for those characters when somebody else gets to use the characters for free? Help make your own dreams come true. You've already started taking steps to investigate this by contacting those companies, right? So please, don't act like I'm being condescending when I've said to be careful. I really just don't want to see people's hard work washed away by eager lap dog lawyers that are perfectly within their rights. Heck, it's almost to the benefit of DC to let their characters be used just long enough to gain some visibility and then snatch it away for even more publicity. DC might even say to have a party with it. But I don't think contacting DC is the right route to DC properties. I'm almost positive that you need to reach Time Warner for DC stuff. Great work and efforts on doing the leg work, please stop getting the idea that I'm some how against you personally. The community needs people like you that are willing to get out there and make a difference. It also needs people to help prevent illegal actions from destroying everything that has been worked for by so many, too. |
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