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Rulings for a relative newbie
Topic Started: Mar 10 2009, 05:21 PM (372 Views)
jdos
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Hi all, I've been playing Vs. for about 6 months now, but coming from a Yugioh background, I still get a little twisted up by differences in the chain, timing, and how certain effects are/aren't mandatory. So I was hoping that some of the local gurus could help me with a couple of things my son and I ran into while playing last night.

1. Spiderman - Secret Avenger vs. Hulk - Gladiator

I have Spiderman in play and my opponent puts Hulk into play using his boost effect (KO his 4 drop Hulk) to stun my 4 drop. Can I use Spidey's payment power to effectively negate the boost effect, or no?

I guess what's causing me to trip here is not knowing for sure when the "enters play" part of the boost effect enters the chain, and whether it resolves before Hulk actually hits the field and can be targetted, or does the "enters play" portion trigger when Hulk hits the field and start a chain where I can then target Hulk to remove his powers and keywords?

And whichever way the ruling goes, would it be the same for any "enters play" effect, or does it differ at all due to it being a boost effect?

2. Cable - Secret Avenger vs. Hulk - Savage Hulk

My opponent drops Hulk and pays 13 endurance making Hulk a 25/25. I drop Cable with his Boost and remove him and Hulk from play. Does Hulk keep the +X/+X pump when he comes back at the beginning of my attack step? I'm assuming "yes", since it says "...this turn". But then, maybe not since he's being removed from play and coming back in? Is he considered the same card/character as the one who left play when he comes back?

Would it be the same for, say, 6 drop Hulk - Green King? I'm assuming he would lose the counters in any case where he's removed from play, right?

3. Hercules - Secret Avenger

Can you activate him on a character who is still ready to just give him the three +1/+1 counters? I'm guessing yes since the faq says you can activate him on a stunned guy to give him counters but he can't ready. Just wanted to clarify if the "Ready another character" was a mandatory part of the effect, or if it's optional.


Thanks in advance.

And just as a side note...It's really nice to see the community so behind a game that the publisher has pulled the plug on. This game is so much more complex and fun that Yugioh ever was. I've collected nearly three times more Vs. cards in 6 months of casual play than I did Yugioh cards in 4 years of semi competitive playing. Really hope you guys can keep this thing afloat. [coolguy]

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carlosthedwarf
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Hey jdos! Glad you joined up and are digging the game. I'll give you quick answers to your questions, but someone more technical is welcome to jump in and give more detailed answers.

1. Spidey Vs. Hulk

From a Metagame article:

“Boost: Some characters have the word “Boost” in their text boxes. The number after the word Boost is the character’s “Boost cost” in resource points. If a character has Boost, you may pay its Boost cost as you recruit the character. If you paid its Boost cost, follow the instructions after the word Boost.” Thus, Boost is an additional cost at the time of recruitment that usually creates an effect that last until the end of the turn. Each character with Boost has his or her own distinct effect.

So Hulk isn't officially targetable until he's in play. Since spidey can't target, he can't negate.

2. Cable vs. Hulk

It's an entirely new Hulk that comes back in. The card is effectively "erased" from the game's memory when removed...then it comes back in, all fresh and new. And without the +x/+x.

3. Herc

Yeah - you can use him on a ready character. If he was worded "ready target exhausted character", then it wouldn't work.
Edited by carlosthedwarf, Mar 10 2009, 05:50 PM.
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kariggi
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Well 2 & 3 are pretty easy, but 1 I'd look for confirmation of my belief on.

1. Spidey can't help because, you have to target a character and hulk isn't 'in play' to be targetted untill he is "in play" at which point his power has triggered and been placed on the chain. Even if Hulk loses his powers after his effect is still on the chain and will resolve regardless of what happens to hulk.

2. Once a card has been removed from play it is a different card when it returns so it won't remember what it did before it left play or any modifiers that were on it. So he loses the +'s

2.1. Counters likewise go away when a character is removed from play.

3. Since being exhausted isn't a targetting requirement for Hercules you fufill as much of his effect as possible. So yes you can give counters to a ready guy.
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HeroComplex
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I have to run out the door, so these responses will be a bit less involved than normal, but here goes:

1) A triggered power can't generate its effect until the triggering event has fully happened---so Hulk's triggered power can't trigger until he has entered play. As the last part of resolving Hulk's recruit effect (in other words, the last part of bringing him into play), you place any triggered effects on the chain.

During an effect's resolution, no player has priority, so no one can play new effects. As a result, the first chance to use Spider-Man is after Hulk's recruit effect has resolved and Hulk's triggered effect is on the chain. The opponent can absolutely use Spider-Man on Hulk before Hulk's effect resolves, but doing so will not stop Hulk's effect from resolving. Effects are independent of their sources, so the effect resolves regardless of whether Hulk has had his powers removed.

And this answer is the same for any "enters play" power. Boost simply means that you can pay an additional recruit cost to give Hulk extra text---that extra text then follows all the normal rules for powers.

2) When a card changes zones, it actually becomes an entirely new card. So the Hulk that comes into play during your attack step is not the same Hulk that earlier received +X/+X. His power will trigger again, in case you've gained any more endurance since the build phase, but otherwise he's at his regular stats. In the same vein, cards also lose any counters when changing zones.

3) When you choose Hercules' target, the only restriction is that you have to meet the requirements in the targeting phrase. For Hercules, that's just "another target character," so you can target anyone other than Hercules himself.

When the effect is ready to resolve, you have to check whether the target still meets that requirement. Assuming the target is still in play, you should meet Herc's requirement with no problem. The effect then moves to resolution. And once you've started resolving the effect, you must complete as much as possible---even if some parts are impossible. Whether or not the target can ready, he still gets his counters.

(Note: Many cards specifically signal that one part is dependent on another, like by saying "Do X. If you do, Y happens.")


Hope those help, welcome to the forums!
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carlosthedwarf
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BTW jdos, as you'll quickly learn, HeroComplex is ALWAYS the go-to guy for rules. Kariggi and I may be right most of the time, but we'll never be able to give you a solid, textbook explaination like Hero can. Go Hero! (and I love how his "less involved" response is about 10 times more informative than K + mine combined).
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jdos
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Thanks a bunch, guys. I swear, learning a new TCG is like learning a new language. Seems I can speak Vs. but I can't seem to rid myself of the Yugi accent. :)

I'm sure I'll be back with more questions. Thanks so much for the warm welcome.
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danger
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jdos
Mar 10 2009, 07:01 PM
Thanks a bunch, guys. I swear, learning a new TCG is like learning a new language. Seems I can speak Vs. but I can't seem to rid myself of the Yugi accent. :)

I'm sure I'll be back with more questions. Thanks so much for the warm welcome.
i like this guy.

he seems witty and he has a chong lee avatar.

theres nothing to dislike.
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