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| 100 Ideas: Crime Lords; Reinforcement | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 11 2009, 07:25 PM (1,803 Views) | |
| cretin | Mar 11 2009, 07:25 PM Post #1 |
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Locations: 2 x Geraci Family Estate (for reinforcing) 2 x Hand Dojo (let them choose) Characters: 4 x Carbone's Assassins, Army {1} (also great for reinforcing) 2 x Stilt-Man, Wilbur Day {2} (hello cosmic counters) 2 x Doctor Sun, Creator of Project Mind {2} (tough stats) 2 x Kingpin, Wilson Fisk {3} (also as underdrop with boost) 2 x Owl, Leland Owlsley {3} (flight anyone) 2 x Jester, Jonathan Powers {4} (hello fate artifacts) 2 x Bullseye, Deadly Marksman {4} (tough stats) 2 x Deadpool, Wade Wilson {5} (very sneaky upcurve) 2 x Taskmaster, Mnemonic Assassin {6} (takes on everyone) Plot Twists: 2 x Uprising {2} (upcurve stunning) 2 x No Rest for the Wicked {3} (possible +9 DEF) 2 x The Family {6} (reinforcement) Possible additions: Hired Hit Shakedown Burn Rubber Roscoe Sweeny, Fixer Hulk, Joe Fixit Crowd Control Finishing Move Nasty Surprise Cover Fire Fight to the Finish Armed Escort |
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| scottkthompson | Mar 12 2009, 04:44 AM Post #2 |
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Right now there are 12 characters between the 1, 2, and 3 drop spots... I thought about this a while and realized something. Roscoe can search for Cobra; Cobra can search for Mr. Hyde. If we ran 2 Roscoes, 1 Cobra, and 1 Mr. Hyde in this deck, we could set the mulligan condition to be Roscoe or Cobra. That would essentially mean we're mulliganing for three cards out of thirty, or one tenth the deck. Since you can see 10 cards after a mulligan and your turn one draw, your chances of hitting Roscoe or Cobra are outstanding. If you hit Roscoe you're guarenteed 1,2,3; If you hit Cobra you're guarenteed 2,3. Either way we've just turned 12 card slots into 4, allowing us 8 more plot twists! What do you think? |
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| scottkthompson | Mar 12 2009, 04:46 AM Post #3 |
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I should probably also tell you that I'm thinking of limiting only one deck of the 100 to running the fartifacts, so if you're teching in Jester just for that, it might be a wasted spot. I haven't made that a for-sure though, but I'm leaning that way! |
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| cretin | Mar 13 2009, 08:22 PM Post #4 |
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I personally really do not care much for the Cobra Hyde combo. I just don't think these characters add very much on their own. Stilt-Man is da bomb, you don't want to loose him. Roscoe is always good though, but you'll miss your 1 drop for reinforcing. And how long will it take before your choose not to recover your Roscoe? I've tried to play with him, but he would have been so much better concealed. Now he's just not good enough. But that's just my opinion. Feel free to edit the deck anyway you like. Anymore Crime Lords fans out there? 12 low drops maybe a little too much, agreed. But Carbone's Assassins can always be used later when you decide to underdrop for a little extra reinforcing. Jester can be switched out for the very excellent Masked Marauder, Frank Farnum! So how about: -2 Carbone's Assassins -2 Jester +2 Masked Marauder +2 Shakedown (characters + this turn = sweet)
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| BigSpooky | Mar 13 2009, 09:44 PM Post #5 |
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I really like the fact that you've given reasons why you chose specific Crime Lords cards, but I think that you're missing a unifying theme for the deck. I suppose that you could conceivably just play individually good cards and have a decent deck. But what makes a team or theme strong is the synergy between the individual cards to make the deck stronger as a whole. While Crime Lords have never been given a lot of respect, they have some of the coolest defensive tricks in the game. Most of these trigger off of reinforcement, so you should consider looking at a defensively slanted deck with heavy reinforcement tricks. Here are some thoughts abut card choices for the deck: CHARACTERS - I agree with you that you usually won't be recovering Roscoe once you get your bigger characters into play. However, he's got a great search effect that will actually allow you to hit those critical early drops. Considering how important board presence can be to a deck like this, an early game search effect shouldn't be quickly dismissed. Maybe you don't like the Cobra/Mr. Hyde combo. However, the fact that hitting Cobra on two ensures that you hit your 3-drop is significant - especially since Crime Lords is notoriously lacking in search and draw effects. I would much rather hit a decent 3-drop 95% of the time than hit an amazing 3-drop only 50% of the time. From turn four, you're looking at some absolutely ridiculous characters. Master Man may be one of the best 4-drops in the game - ESPECIALLY in a defensively focused deck. Red Skull, Johann Shmidt * HYDRA is just plain obnoxious on defense. Finally, Baron Strucker and Hulk, Joe Fixit have reinforcement based effects that make them very hard to deal with. PLOT TWISTS/LOCATIONS/EQUIPMENT - Personally, I get all giggly when I think of the possibility of Master Man equipped with a copy of Armed Escort. Armed Escort can be good equipped to several characters in the deck, but it could be abusive if equipped to a guy who gets bigger every time he defends. I agree that Geraci Family Estate is great in the deck. However, you probably want to pair that with Underground Laboratory. That will give the deck the card drawing capability that it so desperately needs to succeed. Crime Lords have a couple of good plot twists that grant reinforcement - The Family and New King in Town - and a couple that key off of reinforcement - Face the Master and Rough House. Here's a rough build based on these ideas: 2 Roscoe Sweeney, Fixer 2 Cobra, Klaus Vorhees 2 Dr. Sun, Creator of Project Mind 2 Kingpin, Wilson Fisk OR James Barnes <> Winter Soldier, Communist Puppet * RAID 1 Mr. Hyde, Calvin Zabo 2 Master Man, Max Lohmer * RAID 1 Saracen, Muzzafar Lambert 2 Red Skull, Johann Shmidt * HYDRA 2 Baron Strucker, Baron Wolfgang von Strucker * HYDRA 1 Hulk, Joe Fixit 1 The Sleeper, Doomsday Device * RAID 2 Face the Master 1 New King in Town 2 Rough House 1 The Family 2 Geraci Family Estate 2 Underground Laboratory 2 Armed Escort Like Scott said, mulligan for Roscoe or Cobra. If you have Roscoe, you can use his effect each turn to hit your drop; or, if you already have the character you need, use him to thin out the deck so you can draw into the cards you need. I like the global defensive boost that Kingpin gives. However, James Barnes <> Winter Soldier, Communist Puppet * RAID might be a better choice. While you lose the defensive boost, you pretty much guarantee that you'll get a stun on an opposing character. This could be especially good with Master Man; who could get his counters prior to you stunning the attacker with James Barnes. Not only does your opponent now have a stunned character, but they STILL have to go through Master Man! I also think that a card like Poker Night also wouldn't be out of place in this deck. It's a shame that Tag Team is a DC card, because it would be AMAZING. |
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| cretin | Mar 14 2009, 01:54 PM Post #6 |
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First of, let me say that BigSpooky is absolutely right. Also Scotts own comments make very much sense. You should really go with the later build. It's much more competitive and solid as a build to be played for the win. On the other hand I still want to make one last point..... When I first read this it really inspired the Timmy (can I use that reference here in a Vs environment?) in me. Teaching new kids the game using some of our favourite teams. Very cool stuff.Then I remembered that it always kind of struck me as odd that my favourite characters never made the top of my favourite teams? They just weren't competitive enough. How cool would it be if some kid got the chance to play Deadpool, Stilt-Man, Kingpin and Bullseye in one deck. Once they start to learn the game they will eventually be drawn towards the Ahmeds, Quicksilvers and Blinks and shy away from the Supermans, Spider-Mans and Wolverines. Yes the deck I submitted lacked a strong focus and a solid playability, and I expected you guys to make it better. As I told Scott it was just a first inspired draft as a starting point for this deck. I aimed for a low cost swarm build that also did a lot of natural (old school, using characters) reinforcing (instead of only abilities that grant reinforcement some other way). An occasional underdrop or boost effect and trying to go for the upcurve stunning when you don't have the initiative. I also used only old-templated cards in my build, because I stopped collecting when the template changed and I have no strong knowledge of the newer cards and their ability. The point I'm actually trying to make is that you guys should really decide if you would like to make the best/effective deck possible or tailor to some of the Timmy-ness and include some recognizable characters that you'd only play while still learning the game? "Yeah, Jack just beat Tom with some unknown guy with a big swastika on his shirt." -or- "Oh, Jack just lost to Tom even after he had his Deadpool take down Super-Man." I love your build by the way, and again I strongly suggest you work from there. It just not my deck anymore when only 7 of my original 30 cards remain. ;-) |
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| scottkthompson | Mar 14 2009, 10:50 PM Post #7 |
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I'm just spitballing here, but if you look at my 100 decks list, I had two Crime Lords decks listed. How about we have one that focuses primarily on each of the team's iteration. Big Spooky's deck is mostly the new stuff. I would love to have a deck that used Barnes/Master Man/Armed Escort, but we could also have a deck that primarily uses the older stuff too. Thoughts? |
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| scottkthompson | Mar 15 2009, 12:07 AM Post #8 |
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How about: 2 Roscoe Sweeny, Fixer 2 Cobra, Klaus Vorhees 1 Mr. Hyde, Calvin Zabo 1 Kingpin, Wilson Fisk 2 Saracen, Muzzafar Lambert 1 Bullseye, Deadly Marksman 1 Kingpin, Overboss 1 Deadpool, Wade Wilson 1 Kirigi, Master Assassin 1 Taskmaster, Mnemonic Assassin 1 Bullseye, Master of Murder 2 Face the Master 2 No Fear or Uprising 2 No Rest for the Wicked 2 Rough House 2 Fight to the Finish 2 Lay Down with Dogs 1 The Family 2 Geraci Family Estates 1 Hand Dojo This is a more curved version of Cretin's build, but uses all the plots and locations he had, and most of the characters (Kingpin, Bullseye, Deadpool, Taskmaster). The Roscoe/Cobra/Hyde start allows us to add more plots, noticeably Fight to the Finish (which was on Cretin's possible inclusions list) which I think is a must in an upcurve/reinforcement Crime Lords build. Kingpin, Overboss is also amazing on five if you need a visible body. Saracen will make sure he stuns anyone who attacks him, and once he does, he can deflect his own stun to someone else to do it again! The second version of the deck listed by Big Spooky can be a new deck entirely as I had listed crime Lords twice in my 100 ideas list. It can be the Hydra/Red Skull Deck. |
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| BigSpooky | Mar 15 2009, 02:37 AM Post #9 |
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Personally, I think a Red Skull legend would be extremely cool. Also, regarding cretin's comments, I agree with you about the competitive conundrum. I've been playing 30-card decks with my teammates for over a year now. When we first started, we were playing a lot of generics that didn't necessarily fit the theme. However, we evetually realized that the decks were a lot more fun to play when we tried to focus on teams and themes. Savage Beatdown is an amazing card. The problem is that it will be an amazing card in just about any deck, so there is no point in splashing it into a 30-card theme deck. Rather, it is much more fun to try to work with the tools within the team and try to find a way to make those cards work. I think that if a particular card compliments a theme in this format, it should alwys be given more consideration than other cards; even if other cards might be "better" cards. Even though I always try to find a competitive build for a team theme, I have very specific parameters which I stay within. I think that your point-of-view and mine are a lot more alike than unalike! ;) Edited by BigSpooky, Mar 15 2009, 02:48 AM.
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| cretin | Mar 15 2009, 03:24 PM Post #10 |
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Understood If we're going to build two decks this one still needs a lot of work. For the other deck..... It could also be BYOTT, as in two teams right? Maybe instead of Hydra using Shield or Weapon X? This has been going around for some time now. It's a very effective idea for a Red Skull Legend build. If it's fun to play, I don't know? Anyone foolish enough to attack you on turn 3 will lose the game.
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| scottkthompson | Mar 16 2009, 12:17 AM Post #11 |
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I also slapped this deck together when it first hit the forums. It might be too abusive in the thirty card format. My golden age version runs Two-Face, Split Personality and a ton of draw/discard effects to help get all the puzzle pieces as quickly as possible. Once you have these three cards, your opponent can't attack you the rest of the game. They need to rely on burn effects. If Armed Escort was once-per-turn or had to be equipped to a Crime Lords character, this would be a little more balanced. I think for the Red Skull deck we better go in Big Spooky's direction. James Barnes on 3, Armed Escort and Master Man on 4, Red Skull on 5, Baron on 6... Stick to a Hydra/Raid Crime Lords curve. |
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| Shadowtrooper | Mar 28 2009, 04:01 AM Post #12 |
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In my opinion Roscoe is a must, and quite possibly even a mulligan condition. I like the fact that he can search for Cobra and Cobra for Hyde. In a deck that has no real search this is to big of an advantage not to play. I do like however Stilt-Man on 2. Even if a back up drop he should be in the deck. There are a ton of decks with counters out there on the 100 decks list: Titans/Doom Patrol, Superman Clones, Heralds Stall, Avenges Reservist Rally, Radioactive Man control, and a few others. Stilt-Man would be a beast against decks such as those. We shouldn't miss on the opportunity to use their strengths to this decks advantage. I'm surprised no one has suggested playing Poker Night. Reinforcement + a card is good. I also don't like that people tend to fill out their Crime Lord builds with a bunch of defensive tricks leaving them weak on the offensive. Do we really need to run an 8 drop? I think Taskmaster can easily become a second 7 drop character with his ability thus no real need of letting the game reach turn 8. Heck we could even run the risk of not running a 7 drop and add a few pumps for the deck for when it has the initiative. Anyway thats what I think. |
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| scottkthompson | Mar 31 2009, 08:54 PM Post #13 |
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We'll take out a Cobra for a Stilt Man. That will leave 2 Roscoes and 1 Cobra left in the deck to mulligan for. That's 1/10 of the deck, and you see 10 cards with a mulligan. Besides, if you hit Roscoe, you can choose to get Stilt Man and Wilson for your two and three drops, which isn't a bad play. There are no eight drops in the deck though (refer to the deck edit a couple posts back). 2 Roscoe Sweeny, Fixer 1 Stilt-Man, Wilbur Day 1 Cobra, Klaus Vorhees 1 Mr. Hyde, Calvin Zabo 1 Kingpin, Wilson Fisk 2 Saracen, Muzzafar Lambert 1 Bullseye, Deadly Marksman 1 Kingpin, Overboss 1 Deadpool, Wade Wilson 1 Kirigi, Master Assassin 1 Taskmaster, Mnemonic Assassin 1 Bullseye, Master of Murder 2 Face the Master 2 No Fear or Uprising 2 No Rest for the Wicked 2 Rough House 2 Fight to the Finish 2 Lay Down with Dogs 1 The Family 2 Geraci Family Estates 1 Hand Dojo Would you put Poker Night in place of Lay Down with Dogs? |
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| scottkthompson | May 30 2009, 03:48 AM Post #14 |
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I'm going to consider the list posted in my last post final unless there are crazy objections! |
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| Gambit07 | May 31 2009, 02:16 AM Post #15 |
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I know this is late but is there any MODOC squad in the crime lords decks???? I played against 2 crime lords decks last night and MODOC squad was brutal. |
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Very cool stuff.
How cool would it be if some kid got the chance to play Deadpool, Stilt-Man, Kingpin and Bullseye in one deck. Once they start to learn the game they will eventually be drawn towards the Ahmeds, Quicksilvers and Blinks and shy away from the Supermans, Spider-Mans and Wolverines.
Anyone foolish enough to attack you on turn 3 will lose the game.


2:35 PM Jul 11