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Phoenix Rising; 100 Ideas 30 Card Deck
Topic Started: Mar 22 2009, 07:56 PM (1,929 Views)
bkwrds
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is a Gypsy Doom
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I built this deck this week and Scott asked me about it, so I told him I'd brew up a 30 card version. I did and it's pretty effective, Phoenix Rising abuse. In goldfishing I usually come up with at least five counters on Jean turn 5. With either Cerebro or Worthington in a smaller deck you get to see every card. The deck takes evens and we can usually finish our opponent off on turn 6, after Cyclops lets Jean swing a 2nd time.

I usually mull for a Jean with cost 3 or less, so that I can play Splintering on 4 if I've got one.

Characters:

2x Jean Grey, Phoenix Rising
2x Jean Grey, Teen Telepath
2x Jean Grey, Telekinetic Fighter
2x Jean Grey, Age of Apocalypse
2x Wolverine, Logan
2x Emma Frost, Ice Queen
2x Cyclops, Astonishing X-Man
1x Prof X, WMPT

Locations:
1x Substructure
1x Research Facility
1x Xavier's Institute of Higher Learning
1x Cerebro
1x Worthington

Plot Twists:
2x Phoenix Rising
2x Snikt!
2x Turnabout
2x Telepathic Suppression
2x Splintering Consciousness

Scott's thematic edit:
-1 Iceman, Frosty
+1 Wolverine, Logan
Edited by bkwrds, Mar 23 2009, 12:03 AM.
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scottkthompson
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That other moderator guy
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If you drop Iceman for another Wolverine, then this deck could be all about love triangles!

Cyclops/Jean/Emma
Cyclops/Jean/Wolverine

Cyclops and Jean do not have a very healthy relationship it would appear :)
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bkwrds
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is a Gypsy Doom
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Done!

They'd better not have a healthy relationship now... she's dead, so I hope they aren't getting too close...
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scottkthompson
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I'm assuming the Substructure and Research Fascility are to put Jean Grey character cards into the row so that you can replace them into the KO'd pile. Correct?

If that's the case, wouldn't Cleansing Flame serve the same purpose? When Jean Grey comes into play on turn 5, you can replace up to 5 resources with Cleansing Flame. The Cleansing Flame will resolve before Jean's enter play ability does it's check so you'll still get counters for all those characters.

Right? Or am I missing something?

Edit:
Is she dead for real this time? I feel like she's 'died' twice already! I follow DC way more closely though, so I don't really know where's she's at in her story arc.
Edited by scottkthompson, Mar 23 2009, 04:42 AM.
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bkwrds
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is a Gypsy Doom
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Good question.

Because Cleansing Flame is conditional, wouldn't it happen after Jean comes into play? ie Too late for the counters?
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sirthomas
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Jean's effect goes on the chain, Cleansing Flame goes on the chain, Cleansing Flame resolves putting more Jeans into KO pile, Jean's effect resolves

Remove Phoenix Rising, Snikt and turnabout. Add New & Improved and Children of the Arom. Phoenix Rising the pt hurts Phoenix Rising the character if you need to drop a new one later
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bkwrds
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is a Gypsy Doom
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I haven't yet re-dropped the 5, and it's a 30 card deck, with all the mill effects I usually hit every character. I like Snikt and Rising because they're thematic, I had Atom in an earlier version but decided that I had enough discard effects already... therefore plenty of characters in the KO pile.

I like Turnabout so I can place Jean behind Wolverine or Emma on turn 5 so that she can swing. When your smallest character has 9 DEF, good times.
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sirthomas
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Why 30 card deck anyway? I only see those in drafts
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scottkthompson
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Sir Thomas, I have some light reading for you ;)

http://vssystem.org/2009/02/04/the-100-ideas-starters-for-starters/
http://vssystem.org/2009/02/15/the-100-ideas-unnatural-selection/
http://vssystem.org/2009/03/10/100-ideas-check-in/
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vs_savant2
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I kinda gree that New and Improved Might be neccesary (SC) with the 2 drop slot only being Jean and maybe the 3 drop slot could be Jean. Popping one of them to make 5 drop Jean even bigger sounds cool.

-2 Snikt ( I dont think you will have the cards to discard for this/ at least the Jeans any way)

+2 New and IMproved
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scottkthompson
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What do you think Bkwrds?
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BigSpooky
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I think that your deck is trying to be too tricky with what is essentially a fairly straightforward concept. Your goal is to recruit a very formidable Jean Grey, Phoenix Rising on turn five. To that end, you want to play cards that support that theme. I think several of the cards that you have do that; others not so much.

First, your character count is a bit too low. For most of these 30-card decks, they need to play 17-18 characters. For a deck that specifically relies on multiple characters in the KO'd pile, you'll need a LOT of copies of that character (around 10). I'd go up to at least 18 characters total.

In addition, you want to play characters that have particular synergy with your theme. I think Emma Frost and Cyclops are both good picks in that regard. However, you probably want to consider playing Archangel, Angel. Not only is he a discard outlet, but he gives you access to another discard outlet (Worthington Industries). You might also reconsider your primary 3-drop. Wolverine is obviously amazing. However, depending on how effectively you can fill your KO'd pile, you might consider Nightcrawler, Swashbuckler. I honestly don't know if this is a better choice - Wolverine's stats are hard to ignore. It's just something to think about.

To conclude on characters, you can drop a copy of Cyclops to up your copies of Jean Grey to 10. Jean Grey, Alive Again at four seems good. While she won't be a recruit choice for most games, she can be helpful for milling a few more copies of Jean Grey into the KO'd pile. Also, a copy of Phoenix Force at eight seems sound. Again, you probably won't recruit her 95% of the time, but she'll be nice to have the remaining 5% of those games.

On the plot twists/locations, I think that resource row cycling is the wrong way to go with this deck. If you had more control over what goes in the row, it wouldn't be a bad idea. However, with the way it's built now, you are just as likely to put a card that you don't want in the row as one that you do. Yes... I realize that contradicts my earlier point about Jean Grey, Alive Again. But, like I said, hers is an effect that you presumably won't use in most of your matchups - she's just there as KO'd pile fodder. Hopefully, in the event that you do have her in play and decide to use her effect, you already have your lat game set up.

Instead of going with the complex and risky resource row cycling, it might be better to max out your copies of Cerebro and Worthington Industries. While you can potentially miss out on plot twists and locations with these cards, you get a much more consistent KO'd pile filler AND you solidify your curve. With all of the draw/cycling power in the deck, you should very rarely miss a drop in your curve (even playing only a single copy of the late-game drops).

I love Splintering Consciousness, but it's the only Jean Grey legend card that I think is really playable. I suppose that Telepathic Suppression could be really good - especially since you can mess with opposing characters. However, the limitation to attacks makes the card very situational. As far as the pumps go, I think Turnabout is amazing, but I've never really fallen in love with SNIKT! I'm not sure why, because the +4 ATK on attack or defense seems like it should be amazing. However, I've always just found that it wasn't enough of an effect to merit the card investment. Personally, I would go with either Telepathic Suppression or Turnabout (one of the two); and cut SNIKT! altogether.

I also agree with sirthomas' comments regarding Phoenix Rising vs. Children of the Atom. Phoenix Rising is one of my favorite cards in the game (and definitely thematic), but Children of the Atom is a stronger call from a functional perspective.

Finally, New and Improved could be good, but seems situational. If you were recruiting Jean Grey each turn, then it might be useful. However, since you optimally only want to recruit her twice a game, playing more than one copy of New and Improved seems like a waste of space. With the other slot, I think a copy of X-Corporation would be a good call. Against aggressive decks, it can give you a few additional turns. Aside from that, it's another outlet to discard extra copies of Jean Grey.

Here's my take on your build:


CHARACTERS (18)
2 Archangel, Angel
2 Jean Grey, Teen Telepath
2 Jean Grey, Telekinetic Fighter
2 Jean Grey, Age of Apocalypse
2 Nightcrawler, Swashbuckler / Wolverine, Logan
1 Jean Grey, Alive Again
2 Emma Frost, Ice Queen
2 Jean Grey, Phoenix Rising
1 Cyclops, Astonishing X-Man
1 Prof X, WMPT
1 Jean Grey, Phoenix Force

PLOT TWISTS (7)
2 Children of the Atom
1 New and Improved
2 Splintering Consciousness
2 Telepathic Suppression / Turnabout

LOCATIONS (5)
2 Cerebro
2 Worthington Industries, X-Corp
1 X-Corporation
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vs_savant2
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BigSpooky
May 15 2009, 04:23 PM
I think that your deck is trying to be too tricky with what is essentially a fairly straightforward concept. Your goal is to recruit a very formidable Jean Grey, Phoenix Rising on turn five. To that end, you want to play cards that support that theme. I think several of the cards that you have do that; others not so much.

First, your character count is a bit too low. For most of these 30-card decks, they need to play 17-18 characters. For a deck that specifically relies on multiple characters in the KO'd pile, you'll need a LOT of copies of that character (around 10). I'd go up to at least 18 characters total.

In addition, you want to play characters that have particular synergy with your theme. I think Emma Frost and Cyclops are both good picks in that regard. However, you probably want to consider playing Archangel, Angel. Not only is he a discard outlet, but he gives you access to another discard outlet (Worthington Industries). You might also reconsider your primary 3-drop. Wolverine is obviously amazing. However, depending on how effectively you can fill your KO'd pile, you might consider Nightcrawler, Swashbuckler. I honestly don't know if this is a better choice - Wolverine's stats are hard to ignore. It's just something to think about.

To conclude on characters, you can drop a copy of Cyclops to up your copies of Jean Grey to 10. Jean Grey, Alive Again at four seems good. While she won't be a recruit choice for most games, she can be helpful for milling a few more copies of Jean Grey into the KO'd pile. Also, a copy of Phoenix Force at eight seems sound. Again, you probably won't recruit her 95% of the time, but she'll be nice to have the remaining 5% of those games.

On the plot twists/locations, I think that resource row cycling is the wrong way to go with this deck. If you had more control over what goes in the row, it wouldn't be a bad idea. However, with the way it's built now, you are just as likely to put a card that you don't want in the row as one that you do. Yes... I realize that contradicts my earlier point about Jean Grey, Alive Again. But, like I said, hers is an effect that you presumably won't use in most of your matchups - she's just there as KO'd pile fodder. Hopefully, in the event that you do have her in play and decide to use her effect, you already have your lat game set up.

Instead of going with the complex and risky resource row cycling, it might be better to max out your copies of Cerebro and Worthington Industries. While you can potentially miss out on plot twists and locations with these cards, you get a much more consistent KO'd pile filler AND you solidify your curve. With all of the draw/cycling power in the deck, you should very rarely miss a drop in your curve (even playing only a single copy of the late-game drops).

I love Splintering Consciousness, but it's the only Jean Grey legend card that I think is really playable. I suppose that Telepathic Suppression could be really good - especially since you can mess with opposing characters. However, the limitation to attacks makes the card very situational. As far as the pumps go, I think Turnabout is amazing, but I've never really fallen in love with SNIKT! I'm not sure why, because the +4 ATK on attack or defense seems like it should be amazing. However, I've always just found that it wasn't enough of an effect to merit the card investment. Personally, I would go with either Telepathic Suppression or Turnabout (one of the two); and cut SNIKT! altogether.

I also agree with sirthomas' comments regarding Phoenix Rising vs. Children of the Atom. Phoenix Rising is one of my favorite cards in the game (and definitely thematic), but Children of the Atom is a stronger call from a functional perspective.

Finally, New and Improved could be good, but seems situational. If you were recruiting Jean Grey each turn, then it might be useful. However, since you optimally only want to recruit her twice a game, playing more than one copy of New and Improved seems like a waste of space. With the other slot, I think a copy of X-Corporation would be a good call. Against aggressive decks, it can give you a few additional turns. Aside from that, it's another outlet to discard extra copies of Jean Grey.

Here's my take on your build:


CHARACTERS (18)
2 Archangel, Angel
2 Jean Grey, Teen Telepath
2 Jean Grey, Telekinetic Fighter
2 Jean Grey, Age of Apocalypse
2 Nightcrawler, Swashbuckler / Wolverine, Logan
1 Jean Grey, Alive Again
2 Emma Frost, Ice Queen
2 Jean Grey, Phoenix Rising
1 Cyclops, Astonishing X-Man
1 Prof X, WMPT
1 Jean Grey, Phoenix Force

PLOT TWISTS (7)
2 Children of the Atom
1 New and Improved
2 Splintering Consciousness
2 Telepathic Suppression / Turnabout

LOCATIONS (5)
2 Cerebro
2 Worthington Industries, X-Corp
1 X-Corporation
This deck should go in. It be good in a way the Spooky could only make it.
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scottkthompson
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I do like the Archangel engine.

When it comes down to choosing between Turnabout and Telepathic Supression, I have to go with Turnabout. For one thing, the deck has no other pumps. I know the goal is a BIG Jean, but when one attack pump can make your three drop Wolverine a 9/9, it's hard to ignore.

2 Archangel, Angel
2 Jean Grey, Teen Telepath
2 Jean Grey, Telekinetic Fighter
2 Jean Grey, Age of Apocalypse
2 Wolverine, Logan
2 Emma Frost, Ice Queen
1 Jean Grey, Alive Again
2 Jean Grey, Phoenix Rising
1 Cyclops, Astonishing X-Man
1 Prof X, WMPT
1 Jean Grey, Phoenix Force

2 Children of the Atom
1 New and Improved
2 Splintering Consciousness
2 Turnabout

2 Cerebro
2 Worthington Industries, X-Corp
1 X-Corporation

I'll also admit that I like how thematic Phoenix Rising is, but at least Children of the Atom has Cyclops, Jean, and Archangel on the art, so it fits the deck well.
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scottkthompson
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Everyone OK with this one being final?

If so, Bkwrds needs to add **Final List** in front of the title!
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