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Sea Creatures
Topic Started: Apr 8 2009, 06:19 AM (340 Views)
Grumqa
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Quote:
 
Sea Creatures gains the affiliations of characters you control named Aquaman.

How is this modifier applied, and what does it take to remove it?

1) I control Aquaman. Are Sea Creatures in my deck JLA, and thus can be gotten with the Watchtower? My guess is no.

2) I control Aquaman and a Sea Creature, which gains the JLA affiliation. Does it lose the JLA affiliation when Aquaman becomes stunned (pretty sure not) or is KOed?

3) Would Flying High on either Aquaman or Sea Creatures cause them to lose the JLA affiliation?
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bkwrds
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Sea Creatures have to be in play for their text to take effect. They do not have the JLA affiliation while they are in your deck or hand. Just in play.

If Aquaman is stunned, he is still Aquaman, and he still has whichever affiliations... so if he is stunned they are still JLA. If he is KOd, you don't control a character named Aquaman any longer, so the effect is lost, and they lose the affiliation.
Edited by bkwrds, Apr 8 2009, 12:26 PM.
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unclechawie
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As clarification,

1. When a card references itself it simply uses its own name in the text. When a card references other cards with that name it will say something along the lines of :

"Other cards in your hand, deck, KO'd pile" etc, etc.

Since Sea Creatures reads, "Sea Creatures gains the affiliations of characters your control names Aquaman" while it is in play, that specific Sea Creatures will gain the affiliations of any Aquamans you have in play.

So the answer is no, you will not be able to grab a Sea Creatures with Watchtower (unless of course you use a global Team-Up like Underground Movement and a secondary team-up to make everyone JLA as well).

2. Character cards don't lose their affiliation or name while they are stunned and thus Sea Creature would still retain the affiliation. As a side note, if Sea Creatures becomes stunned, his power is not active and he loses the affiliations. Since a KO'd Aquaman is no longer a character, but a character card, Sea Creatures will not pull the affiliation from that specific Aquaman.

3. Most character cards only have their text active while in play (unless the card specifically states otherwise). While Sea Creatures is in play, it gains the affiliations of any and all Aquaman you have in play. If Aquaman is removed from the game via Flying High Sea Creatures will lose the affiliation corresponding to that Aquaman as it is no longer in play. Since Sea Creatures text is not active while it is anywhere except in play, if it were removed from the game via Flying High, it's text is not active and therefore does not have any affiliations.

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Grumqa
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Thanks. 1 and 2 are clear now. That's how I thought it worked. On 3, though: it sounds like "gains" is a continuous modifier? So when whatever Flying High removes from play is returned, Sea Creatures gets the JLA affiliation again, because they are in play and Aquaman is in play?
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HeroComplex
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Grumqa
Apr 8 2009, 03:05 PM
Thanks. 1 and 2 are clear now. That's how I thought it worked. On 3, though: it sounds like "gains" is a continuous modifier? So when whatever Flying High removes from play is returned, Sea Creatures gets the JLA affiliation again, because they are in play and Aquaman is in play?
That's correct, but I want to make sure that you're coming to the conclusion that it's a continuous modifier from the right direction.

Sea Creatures' power doesn't have the payment arrow or any of the magic trigger language, so you know that it can't be a payment or triggered power. This means that it has to be a continuous power, as that's the only remaining option. Since it's a continuous power, you know that it doesn't work through effects or the chain and you know that it applies so long as 1) the power exists, and 2) the power's condition is met.

As soon as 1 and 2 are true, Sea Creatures has the affiliation(s). As soon as either 1 or 2 is false, Sea Creatures doesn't have the affiliation(s). Just like Danger Room for rows/affiliations, Sea Creatures constantly updates how its power applies.


Edit: Which is to say, I don't want you to think that "gains" is the important word in figuring out how the power works, what kind of power it is, etc.
Edited by HeroComplex, Apr 8 2009, 04:35 PM.
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Grumqa
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HeroComplex
Apr 8 2009, 04:25 PM
...it can't be a payment or triggered power. This means that it has to be a continuous power, as that's the only remaining option. Since it's a continuous power, you know that it doesn't work through effects or the chain and you know that it applies so long as 1) the power exists, and 2) the power's condition is met.
Nope, didn't know that. And I did in fact think "gains" meant something specific: I thought that might mean it picked up those affiliations and then kept them permanently. If they'd used "has", it would have made sense to me that the affiliations go away as soon as the conditions aren't met.

Thanks for the clarification.
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