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DC Alter Ego question
Topic Started: Aug 10 2009, 03:19 PM (648 Views)
Canadian Bacon
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Just curious about this; the Joker alter ego says the following:

Quote:
 
Each player can't play a card he has already played this game.


I was wondering how this interacts with characters. I assume this means I cannot recruit a character that I've already recruited this game but how does it interact with substitute? I remember some discussions before where people had said that it's only considered "playing" the card if you recruit them. So would the Joker AE stop recruitment/substitute or not?
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Shadowtrooper
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Well he was obviously made to interact with an Insanity deck, and that means you won't be playing 2 copies of the same card in a deck anyway because you would lose all your insanity effects. I guess that would give a small window for a screwup if in fact substituting a character isn't actually playing it which I don't think is the case cause you are in fact playing the character your just not recruiting it. Might be wrong though.
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Canadian Bacon
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Actually I was asking about playing against the Insanity player. I'm playing a different alter ego and was wondering what the interaction would be.
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Obsidian3d
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You can not play a card you've already played. It doesn't matter if it is a plot twist, equipment, character or location. Substituting a character in is playing a card.
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JoseG
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talking about the alter egos I cant find the alter egos KK did back in vstcgplayer.com, why somebody hasnt upload them yet in the fantasy set directory.
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KardKrazy
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Hope this helps Bacon (the bolded parts are the most important parts).
By the Vs Rules and Glossary:

Quote:
 
Play

To play something means to go through rules 505.1a to 505.1f. This is different from putting something into play, which usually happens through a recruit effect resolving or a one-shot modifier.


And Rules 505.1a-505.1f state:

Quote:
 
505.Playing Effects

505.1For a player to play an effect, he or she must go through the following steps in order. A player may not begin to play an effect if there is a modifier that prevents him or her from playing that effect.

505.1aThe player announces the intended effect, reveals its source if that source is not currently revealed, and puts the effect on top of the chain. Certain effects may have a physical card representing them. If an effect has a physical card representing it, the player puts the card on the chain. If it does not have a physical card representing it, the source of the effect remains revealed while the effect is being played.


505.1bIf the effect is modal (see rule 508.2h), the player instructed to choose will make a choice of which mode or modes to use for the effect. If the effect indicates that “an opponent” is to make the choice, the player playing the effect decides which opponent makes this choice. If the effect has additional or alternate costs, the player announces his or her intention to pay additional costs (like boost) or pay by the alternate method. If the effect has a variable cost represented by an X, the player announces the value of X.

505.1cIf the effect has targets, the player chooses those targets at this time. If the effect is modal, the player only chooses targets for the mode or modes that were chosen. The chosen targets must be legal. If the effect has a variable number of targets, the player must first determine how many targets there will be and then choose the targets themselves. A player must have enough legal targets for the effect and can’t choose the same card for two targets of one effect.

505.1dThe player determines the total cost for the effect, first substituting an alternate cost if one is used, then subtracting any cost reductions, and then adding any additional costs. Press is applied after all other cost reductions. Cost reductions are cumulative, as are cost increases. Costs can be reduced below zero during this determination, but after adding additional costs, if the numeric portion of the cost is below zero, that portion is treated as zero. (See rule 104.1.) The player then pays costs in any order.

505.1eAfter the above steps are completed, the effect becomes played. If the effect is a recruit effect, the character or equipment also becomes recruited.

505.1fAny powers or modifiers that triggered have their effects added to the chain. Then, the player that played the effect gets priority. (See rule 506.2.)

The first two bolded parts obviously show that to "play" something you must follow those steps and put its effect on the chain. So to Substitute a character in you would have to reveal the character card and put the Subsititute effect on the chain and then if you have already "Played"/"Substituted"/"Recruited" that same card prior in the game The Joker Alter Ego will stop you from being able to "play" that card. At least that is what I get from this information. I am not HeroComplex though so if you want to stick around for his input I wouldn't blame you=).
later,
Kj
Edited by KardKrazy, Aug 10 2009, 05:08 PM.
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KardKrazy
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JoseG
Aug 10 2009, 05:04 PM
talking about the alter egos I cant find the alter egos KK did back in vstcgplayer.com, why somebody hasnt upload them yet in the fantasy set directory.
I will get the link and post them up for you guys=).
later,
Kj
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JoseG
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KardKrazy
Aug 10 2009, 05:06 PM
Hope this helps Bacon (the bolded parts are the most important parts).
By the Vs Rules and Glossary:

Quote:
 
Play

To play something means to go through rules 505.1a to 505.1f. This is different from putting something into play, which usually happens through a recruit effect resolving or a one-shot modifier.


And Rules 505.1a-505.1f state:

Quote:
 
505.Playing Effects

505.1For a player to play an effect, he or she must go through the following steps in order. A player may not begin to play an effect if there is a modifier that prevents him or her from playing that effect.

505.1aThe player announces the intended effect, reveals its source if that source is not currently revealed, and puts the effect on top of the chain. Certain effects may have a physical card representing them. If an effect has a physical card representing it, the player puts the card on the chain. If it does not have a physical card representing it, the source of the effect remains revealed while the effect is being played.


505.1bIf the effect is modal (see rule 508.2h), the player instructed to choose will make a choice of which mode or modes to use for the effect. If the effect indicates that “an opponent” is to make the choice, the player playing the effect decides which opponent makes this choice. If the effect has additional or alternate costs, the player announces his or her intention to pay additional costs (like boost) or pay by the alternate method. If the effect has a variable cost represented by an X, the player announces the value of X.

505.1cIf the effect has targets, the player chooses those targets at this time. If the effect is modal, the player only chooses targets for the mode or modes that were chosen. The chosen targets must be legal. If the effect has a variable number of targets, the player must first determine how many targets there will be and then choose the targets themselves. A player must have enough legal targets for the effect and can’t choose the same card for two targets of one effect.

505.1dThe player determines the total cost for the effect, first substituting an alternate cost if one is used, then subtracting any cost reductions, and then adding any additional costs. Press is applied after all other cost reductions. Cost reductions are cumulative, as are cost increases. Costs can be reduced below zero during this determination, but after adding additional costs, if the numeric portion of the cost is below zero, that portion is treated as zero. (See rule 104.1.) The player then pays costs in any order.

505.1eAfter the above steps are completed, the effect becomes played. If the effect is a recruit effect, the character or equipment also becomes recruited.

505.1fAny powers or modifiers that triggered have their effects added to the chain. Then, the player that played the effect gets priority. (See rule 506.2.)

The first two bolded parts obviously show that to "play" something you must follow those steps and put its effect on the chain. So to Substitute a character in you would have to reveal the character card and put the Subsititute effect on the chain and then if you have already "Played"/"Substituted"/"Recruited" that same card prior in the game The Joker Alter Ego will stop you from being able to "play" that card. At least that is what I get from this information. I am not HeroComplex though so if you want to stick around for his input I wouldn't blame you=).
later,
Kj
so this alter ego wrecks completely legend decks (in this case world finest)
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JoseG
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KardKrazy
Aug 10 2009, 05:08 PM
JoseG
Aug 10 2009, 05:04 PM
talking about the alter egos I cant find the alter egos KK did back in vstcgplayer.com, why somebody hasnt upload them yet in the fantasy set directory.
I will get the link and post them up for you guys=).
later,
Kj
cool [grin]
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KardKrazy
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Jose, that is not the case at all with this Joker Avatar and Legend decks.
Say you recruit the no cost **4-Drop** Superman and then on Turn 5 you can in fact recruit Superman, Metropolis Marvel (I think thats the version). Because the no cost 4-Drop Superman is not the same card as the 5-Drop Superman. Now if by some effect your Superman, Metropolis Marvel gets KO'd on Turn 5 you can NOT recruit another Superman, Metropolis Marvel on Turn 6 because of The Joker Avatar.
Hope that helps man,
Kj
Edited by KardKrazy, Aug 10 2009, 05:42 PM.
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Canadian Bacon
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See I kind of thought that was the case but I remember discussions that came up previously where you couldn't pay boost costs when you shifted/substituted them in because you weren't in fact "playing" the card.

I wish HeroComplex was around to put all this into layman's terms to make me feel stupid.
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JoseG
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KardKrazy
Aug 10 2009, 05:42 PM
Jose, that is not the case at all with this Joker Avatar and Legend decks.
Say you recruit the no cost **4-Drop** Superman and then on Turn 5 you can in fact recruit Superman, Metropolis Marvel (I think thats the version). Because the no cost 4-Drop Superman is not the same card as the 5-Drop Superman. Now if by some effect your Superman, Metropolis Marvel gets KO'd on Turn 5 you can NOT recruit another Superman, Metropolis Marvel on Turn 6 because of The Joker Avatar.
Hope that helps man,
Kj
thanks KK, now I get it very well. [coolguy]
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Canadian Bacon
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So does anybody know the actual ruling on this? I don't feel it's been answered adequately yet.

Help me HeroComplex, you're my only hope!
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Bliven731
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Captain, you can't play boost effects because you aren't "RECRUITING" the character. You can only play boost as an additional cost to recruit. Substituting is still playing imo, because you are putting a card into play.
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Canadian Bacon
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Bliven731
Aug 11 2009, 05:19 PM
Captain, you can't play boost effects because you aren't "RECRUITING" the character. You can only play boost as an additional cost to recruit. Substituting is still playing imo, because you are putting a card into play.

That's not really true though. Here is the text for boost:
Quote:
 
706.2 “Boost <cost>: <text>” is a keyword that represents two powers. The first power functions in any zone the card it’s on can be played from, and means, “To play, you may pay <cost>." All boost costs are expressed in resource points unless noted otherwise. The phrase "Boost—<cost>: <text>" means the same thing, but <cost> will be an action, not a number of resource points. The second power varies by card type.

The bolded part is what I'm having issues with. We've had discussions before that you cannot pay for boost effects while substituting or shifting characters into play because they do not count as "playing" the card.

If you'll notice, Boost says nothing about "recruiting" the character, it just says "To play".

Now don't get me wrong, you could very well be right but I just want to make sure because previous discussions have kind of disputed what you guys are saying.
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