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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 17 2010, 12:52 AM (1,758 Views) | |
| Lex Luthor Jr | Jun 17 2010, 12:52 AM Post #1 |
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Senior Member
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Can "At Your Service" look for Mystique: Raven? |
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| kariggi | Jun 17 2010, 01:07 AM Post #2 |
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Hero For Hire
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Wow tought question. Mystique doens't have the word "Batman" anywhere, but she does have the name Batman. Cost: 3 At Your Service To play, discard a [Gotham Knights] character card. Search your deck for a card with the word "Batman" in its name, identity, or text. Reveal that card and put it into your hand. DCX-003 Illustrator: Ariel Olivetti Card is legal in: Golden Age, Silver Age, Modern Age Rare Cost: 1 Mystique, Raven Team: Marauders, Brotherhood Concealed Ranged ATK: 1 DEF: 2 Reservist Mystique has all character names while in your deck, hand, or KO'd pile. "Uh-oh, doesn't look good for the home team." MEV-102 Illustrator: Manuel Garcia Card is legal in: Golden Age, Silver Age, Modern Age, Random Punks Uncommon So this isn't definitive but I would rule no because she doesn't have the word Batman anywhere on her card, while she does have the name Batman it does not appear as a word on the card which is I believe what At your Service is looking for. If I can find a ruling I'll bring it, but I don't at the moment, perhaps someone else can chime in. This is a good question. |
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| Vader | Jun 17 2010, 01:45 AM Post #3 |
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that would be my read too no printed word so it won't work |
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| HeroComplex | Jun 17 2010, 02:03 AM Post #4 |
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Since At Your Service doesn't restrict itself to cards' printed information, I don't see any problem with searching for Mystique. |
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| unclechawie | Jun 17 2010, 05:21 AM Post #5 |
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Wow, didn't see that one coming. |
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| HeroComplex | Jun 17 2010, 05:40 AM Post #6 |
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I mean, she's got the name Batman, and the name Superman/Batman Robot, too, so the word "Batman" is in her name twice. If someone has an argument for why At Your Service would only look at printed names, I'm open to it---but at the moment I don't see why that would be the case. |
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| BatHulk | Jun 17 2010, 06:43 AM Post #7 |
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And that's why HeroComplex is HeroComplex. |
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| CptPugwash | Jun 17 2010, 11:37 AM Post #8 |
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I can't believe i'm going to say this - but i think HC is wrong. Not that i'd challenge HC because as far i'm concerned any ruling he says is gospel. I would have believed it worked if at your service had said Search your deck for a card with I just dont see that Mystique has the word Batman. Trouble is there are no other cards like this at all to compare with. I would have interpreted that printed was implicit with "the word" why else would "the word" be there? |
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| CptPugwash | Jun 17 2010, 11:39 AM Post #9 |
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another seperate question on this card. It says "text" rather than "game text" does that mean it can be flavour text or has "text" already been ruled to mean "game text"? |
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| THE BALDMAN | Jun 17 2010, 11:58 AM Post #10 |
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I can see this both ways. I understand the argument both ways. I think I prefer the idea that since the word 'Batman' does not appear on Mystique that she cannot be searched for. It may very well be too fine a line to splice in this way: Mystique, while having the name Batman, Batman does not appear anywhere in her name on the card, and I believe the effect was intended to search for a character that had Batman PRINTED somewhere on the card where it mattered...or why would you leave out the flavor text? For purposes of theme and consistency of character value, I could definitely see this effect working since Mystique would not be obviously different visibly from Batman if she chose to impersonate him. In that case, she would appear to come "From the Shadows" much like the real Batman would. In the end, I doubt it really matters much, but it is a very interesting situation to consider. |
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| KardKrazy | Jun 17 2010, 12:08 PM Post #11 |
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"'I've got a huge" Member
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I actually fully agree with HeroComplex and was thinking to myself it was an obvious "Yes she can be searched." before ever seeing his response. It simply comes down to if ANYTHING in Vs wants to look for a "printed" stipulation it states "printed". If a "printed" stipulation is not written on the card then it isn't looking for such. If UDE would have designed the card to say - Search your deck for a card with the printed word "Batman" in its game text, etc... then obviously she couldn't be searched. Also, just to throw it out there. She can be rallied for by Rick Jones;). later, Kj Edited by KardKrazy, Jun 17 2010, 12:08 PM.
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| CptPugwash | Jun 17 2010, 12:28 PM Post #12 |
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@KK The thing is where printed is stipulated on the search it is searching for something that may be gained e.g. an affiliation, so in that case printed makes a difference. The question is can "a word" be gained if not then there would be no need to add printed. Secondly if printed is not implied by "the word", why put "the word" on the card, surely if HC's interpretation is correct then "the word" becomes superfluous. EDIT Obv there is no differnce between this card and Rick Jones, so if that is the ruling so be it. I just don't get why "the word" is written on these vards. Edited by CptPugwash, Jun 17 2010, 12:30 PM.
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| KardKrazy | Jun 17 2010, 02:29 PM Post #13 |
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"'I've got a huge" Member
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There are also cards that stated printed outside of affiliation. Thing, Ben Grimm - States printed cost, so you can't up the cost and abuse his power. Overload - States printed ATK. Didn't matter because in the end card was abused anyway:p. System Failure - Also states printed ATK. Removed from Continuity - States printed name and version. There is nothing in the game that granted the ability to gain a name while in your deck until Mystique, yet UDE put printed name on this card. Karnak, The Shatterer - States printed DEF. Rogue, Total Transformation - States printed name and version. Taskmaster, Mnemonic Assassin - States printed ATK and DEF. The list goes on. "Printed" was used in all aspects Cpt. The reason that UDE states "word" is because Batman is not a name in a card. The Vs card only has one section for the actual name, and that is at the top of the card. If the card would have read - Search your deck for a card with the name "Batman" in its game text, etc... it would be incorrect since you can't have a name in the game text, flavor text, etc...It is a word. It's only a name in the name part of the card. Hope that clears it up=), Kj P.S: Also remember you can search and successfully find her because she has his name in her name section of her card and no where else. If From the Darkness would have left out "name" in its options you would not be able to search her out successfully. Edited by KardKrazy, Jun 17 2010, 02:32 PM.
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| Lex Luthor Jr | Jun 17 2010, 04:47 PM Post #14 |
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The debate seems to be the use of the term "word". I looked up the definition of "word", because I thought it might help.
I would say that since Mystique: Raven has the name Batman, it can be said audibly that the card is Batman. Since a word can be spoken aloud, according to the definition, and any collection of recognized sounds that indicate an idea is a word, she would therefore have the word "Batman" in her name and therefore would be a valid option for At Your Service. Edited by Lex Luthor Jr, Jun 17 2010, 04:48 PM.
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| kariggi | Jun 17 2010, 05:08 PM Post #15 |
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Hero For Hire
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I think we would be better served by using UDE definitions since those are the one's which apply, real world english can often create minor conflicts with game words whose definitions are more narrowly defined. UDE Comp: Word Some modifiers look “for a card with the word “<text>”” on some part of it. <Text> on such a part of a card only matches if it’s a whole word. Now of course if there was only an entry on <Text> we would be set. After some fairly extensive searching around I can find nothing to support either argument. That being the case the default of VS has tended to be that if it is not stated explicitly, it is not the case. As HC pointed out there seems to be no "printed" requirement despite the use of the term "Word" which as defined by UDE above does not clearly specify "printed" text that being the case I can see no argument that can support my suposition that Mystique could not be searched out by At Your Service. Thus she can (at least in my little vs world). |
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