Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Once you've registered and completed email validation, you'll need to reply to the thread in The Welcome mat before you gain full access to the site.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Cosmic Cube Rules and Index [READ FIRST]; This outta keep you guys busy!
Topic Started: Mar 23 2011, 08:28 PM (3,508 Views)
scottkthompson
Member Avatar
That other moderator guy
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
The VsSystem.org Cosmic Cube Project

The goal of this project is to make interchangeable team packs that can be swapped in and out of a reusable draft cube for endless fun!

What is a draft cube? A cube is a pile of 336 cards that can be sorted into 24 packs to be drafted. These 336 cards will come from 6 sources (like the six sides of a cube) to emulate a UDE set.

1. A Core Team
2. A Core Team
3. A Core Team
4. A Core Team
5. 2 Sub Teams
6. Generic Cards

If we make a pack for each team, we'll have laid the ground work for endless Cube possibilities. Want to change your Cube? Just remove your X-Men Core Pack and replace it with a X-Statix Core Pack. Sick of your Checkmate Sub Pack? Replace it with a Kang Council one! But to develop packs to fit these slots, we should lay down a few ground rules for each pack type. The following rules should allow the packs to be interchangeable (and keep them close to what opening an Upper Deck booster box would yield).

Every submitted Core Team Pack must:
1) Be 60 cards
2) Be between 35-45 characters and 15-25 non-characters (UDE Ratio=40/20)
3) Be highlander
4) Be comprised of character cards that are on-team and non-character cards that reference the team (exceptions can be made for cards that fit the team's theme well)

Every submitted Sub Team Pack must:
1) Be 30 cards
2) Be between 17-23 characters and 7-13 non-characters (UDE Ratio=20/10)
3) Be highlander
4) Be Comprised of character cards that are on-team and non-character cards that reference the team (exceptions can be made for cards that fit the team's theme well)

Every submitted Generic Pack must:
1) Be 60 cards
2) Be between 5-15 characters and 45-55 non-characters (UDE Ratio=10/50)
3) Be highlander
4) Be comprised of characters cards that are not eligible for Core or Sub teams (ie Crisis, Nextwave, etc.), non-character cards that reference the included team, and non-character cards that reference no team


Core Teams (25 Teams)
1. Arkham Inmates
2. Avengers
3. Brotherhood
4. Crime Lords
5. Darkseid's Elite
6. Doom
7. Emerald Enemies
8. Fantastic Four
9. Gotham Knights
10. Green Lantern
11. Injustice Gang
12. JLA
13. League of Assassins
14. Marvel Knights
15. Revenge Squad
16. SHIELD
17. Secret Society
18. Sinister Syndicate
19. Spider-Friends
20. Team Superman
21. Teen Titans
22. Thunderbolts
23. Underworld
24. X-Men
25. X-Statix

Sub Teams (30 Teams)
1. BPRD
2. Anti-Matter
3. Checkmate
4. Exiles
5. Future Foes
6. Hellfire Club
7. Heralds of Galactus
8. Inhumans
9. JLI
10. JSA
11. Kang Council
12. Kree
13. Legionnaires
14. Manhunter
15. Marauders
16. Masters of Evil
17. Morlocks
18. Marvel Defenders
19. New Gods
20. Outsiders
21. Sentinels
22. Shadowpact
23. Squadron Supreme
24. Thule Society
25. Unaffiliated
26. Villains United
27. Warbound
28. Weapon X
29. X-Factor
30. X-Force

Generic Packs Themes:
1. Power Plots (Alpha Flight or Birds of Prey)
2. Tame Plots (Purifiers or Secret Six)
3. Equipment (Infinity Watch or Runaways)
4. Location (Negative Zone or Skrull)
5. Counters (Doom Patrol or Horsement of Apocalypse)
6. Cosmic (United Front or Crisis)
7. Stall (Fearsome Five or Starjammers)
8. A Bit of Everything (Wild Pack or Nextwave)

If we make all of these listed packs, we'll have exactly enough cards for 8 full Cubes to be simultaneously built!

You may have noticed that we're building packs of 60's (or 30's that will combine to make 60's). This is so that there will be 24 extra cards in your Cube when you're done that won't be drafted. Having 24 extra cards means that even a pre-constructed Cube will have variability. Though obviously if you're playing with less than 8 people, there will already be plenty of variability. If you don't want that variability in your 8-man draft, simply draft packs of 15 instead of 14 to use all of the cards. Everybody wins!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bungo_underhill
Member Avatar
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
4) Be comprised of character cards that are on-team and non-character cards that reference the team (exceptions can be made for cards that fit the team's theme well)


What about legend cards?

perhaps

4) Be comprised of character cards that are on-team and non-character cards that reference the team or legends on that team (exceptions can be made for cards that fit the team's theme well)

Gift wrapped should definately go in the spider friends cube but it is not team stamped...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
scottkthompson
Member Avatar
That other moderator guy
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Thats why we added the "exceptions will be made" clause. After all, Warbound isn't even possible without Hulk cards.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
daishi
Member Avatar
Regular
[ *  *  * ]
I didn't realize all cubes were highlander. In general drafts a single lost city for example, never made me decide to build big brotherhood. However TWO... Well pass them Magnetos.

In addition, it seems to me that highlander cubes favor some teams over others. Arkham insanity comes to mind. While teams like X-statix are pretty crappy with only a single dead weight, etc....
Even generics often seen in multiples being 1 sorta makes me sad. I mean how many of you drafted or saw a player draft multiple slobberknockers in the MUN release? Alone, pretty "meh" but in groups? Awesome.

Also path or destruction, satanna, meatmarket become the suck, but every one of the once per game effects (horsemen theme) are bombs.

Again, if this is just how cube works, it seems to be a bummer, but I see a lot of small teams getting a hard go.
Edited by daishi, Mar 24 2011, 05:57 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
scottkthompson
Member Avatar
That other moderator guy
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I also wish cubes weren't highlander, but I was told it was the only way to go!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
KardKrazy
Member Avatar
"'I've got a huge" Member
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
You do make a good point. Arkham Insanity will crush almost any Cube deck if they are all required to be highlander.
later,
Kj
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bungo_underhill
Member Avatar
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Cubes certainly don't have to be highlander. They traditionally are but my friend in sheffield built a cube using multiples and with a standard 1 rare per "pack" distribution.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
OnyxWeapon
Member Avatar
Keeper of the Realm
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
im inclined to agree, in typical drafts some common cards showup en masse. a 2-of limit to cube would bring alot of teams some serious additional viability. after all we don't have the 10 year roster that magic has. and they really only have 5 teams.
Edited by OnyxWeapon, Mar 25 2011, 05:35 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
scottkthompson
Member Avatar
That other moderator guy
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
A 2-card limit (1 for rares) was what was originally proposed; but it was shot down. Do we want to revisite that idea?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
OnyxWeapon
Member Avatar
Keeper of the Realm
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
i would.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
foogoo
Member Avatar
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
It sounds good to me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
scottkthompson
Member Avatar
That other moderator guy
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Which way?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
mrmaul558
Member Avatar
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
daishi
Mar 24 2011, 05:46 PM
I didn't realize all cubes were highlander. In general drafts a single lost city for example, never made me decide to build big brotherhood. However TWO... Well pass them Magnetos.

In addition, it seems to me that highlander cubes favor some teams over others. Arkham insanity comes to mind. While teams like X-statix are pretty crappy with only a single dead weight, etc....
Even generics often seen in multiples being 1 sorta makes me sad. I mean how many of you drafted or saw a player draft multiple slobberknockers in the MUN release? Alone, pretty "meh" but in groups? Awesome.

Also path or destruction, satanna, meatmarket become the suck, but every one of the once per game effects (horsemen theme) are bombs.

Again, if this is just how cube works, it seems to be a bummer, but I see a lot of small teams getting a hard go.
Well, even if we put a 2-of limit in things, in a 360 card cube (some can get as big as 720), what are the odds of you seeing multiples of the cards you want for your team? Not very high.

Highlander Cubes will, by default, favor some teams. But if one team is too dominant, then we can build a less powerful version of that team, or something. We have complete and total control over the draft pool. (Also remember, Arkham Insanity won't be in every cube. I actually plan to make an all-Marvel Cube for my first)

Cards like Path of Destruction kind of bite the bullet here, but that's just part of the experience. And yes, small teams will have trouble being able to be drafted out of such a large card pool. Even in MTG Cube, you can't go mono-color. Dual-color is required, sometimes even 3 color. So here, the smaller teams are required to support the bigger teams, to fill in the holes.


@bungo - That defeats the purpose of cube; The purpose is to let the rares compete with the commons; Only the best of the best make it into the cube, and that is what makes it a unique draft experience.

@scott - Again, having a different ratio of non-rares to rares defeats the purpose, here. Sure, some cards are going to be useless in this format, but others are going to be extremely powerful as a result.

@Onyx - Cubing is not a typical draft setting. Yes, in typical drafts (even in MTG) you see multiples of many different commons and even uncommons sometimes, but that's not Cube Drafting. Here, rarity isn't a factor; only the power level of the cards is taken into account. And that is what makes it such a unique (and superbly fun) draft format that is unlike any other drafting you can do with regular packs.

Just my thoughts. I'm no VS expert, but I have a MTG Cube that I draft with 2-4 times a week with friends, so I kind of have strong feelings about this. Don't knock it 'till you try it, I guess.
Edited by mrmaul558, Mar 25 2011, 04:24 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Darklich528
Member Avatar
Regular
[ *  *  * ]
I actually have a Vs. Cube so I thought I'd chime in with a few thoughts of my own. I'll use a numbered list for readability.

1. The smaller the cube, the better. Like people have mentioned, Vs. doesn't have nearly the amount of printed cards as Magic, and half the teams aren't even viable. I would recommend a 360-ish card Cube unless you plan on playing with a lot of people (8+) every time.

2. In general, I agree with Mr. Maul's Cube philosophy. Play the best cards, regardless of rarity. The "Cosmic Cube" is a novel idea and it would be awesome to implement, but whoa doctor that is a lot of work, a lot of balancing, and a lot of cards. You are essentially creating 8 Cubes at once! I would start smaller. (My opinion, or course)

3. As the Cube designer, you have complete control over the draft environment and the card pool. Also note that the Cube environment isn't like traditional limited draft, or constructed, or sealed. It's somewhere in the middle. As such, you don't need to conform to UDE's set breakdown, or anything else. Some cards will be better, some worse.

4. Teams and team stamped cards are awesome and all, but I wouldn't focus 100% on them. The great thing about the the Cube (and limited in general) is that cards like Gorilla Grodd, Simian Mastermind are a huge beating, despite possibly being the only Secret Society character in the Cube. Sure, define your teams, but don't go crazy with the team-stamped plot twists and loyalty guys.

5. It's alright to have a couple "build-around-me" cards to make drafting interesting and rewarding, but I would avoid cards/teams that are too linear, or require 3+ cards to achieve. Lost City is an example of a "build-around-me" card that is fine because all you need to make it work is characters of the same name. On the other hand, Kree needs an abundance of Press guys at varying drops, or the whole strategy fails. Kree Press is something I would avoid. Remember, you're not guaranteed to see every card when you draft.

To start, I would pick 4-6 teams that all have at least 60+ printed characters. Use teams that you personally enjoy, because that's what Cube is all about...fun!

My Cube is the following:
35 X-Men
35 Brotherhood
35 Fantastic Four
35 Doom
35 Gotham Knights
35 Teen Titans
40 "Other Teams"
35 Generic Locations/Equipment
75 Generic Plot Twists

I originally had fewer, large teams with many plot twists and loyalty guys. I found that a tighter, more generic team list was much better. Here's why:

1. Since it was a singleton format, character tutors were rare in a large team section. Gotham Knights, for example, had Bat Signal for the entire 60 card section. (That's half the reason you run a single team in constructed!)

2. With almost any team-stamped effect, you can find a generic (albeit less good) version.

3. The other main reason to keep the same team is reinforcing/team attacking, which you can find cards for in the generic section as well.

4. Last but certainly not least - I found that people were picking the strongest character in the pack anyway, regardless of team. Why? Because Cube is still a limited format, and above-the-curve characters and strong generic PT's are almost always better.

I found that in any given team, there's 5-6 cards that make people go "Wow, I'm building this team!", and everything else was just support for those 5-6 cards. So I kept those in, reduced the team sections a lot, reduced the loyalty characters, and removed the team-stamped plot twists that were sub-par. I then added in generic everything else, and it has been a blast ever since. Anyway, I've rambled, but if you want more information or anything else, let me know. Thanks for reading and good luck!
Edited by Darklich528, Mar 28 2011, 08:05 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Orange_Soda_Man
Member Avatar
Yolo Boros
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I don't see there being an issue at all with 1) the size of the Cosmic Cube and 2) Arkham Insanity.
First, we might as well make a cube list for every team, so people who go out and make their own cubes can use our lists as guides.
Second, like maul said Arkham wouldn't be in every draft - think of how dominion's cards work. Teams will go in and out all the time, for those who choose to cube this way.

The best thing about cube is that we can take the concept in different ways and still have a blast with it. You might be over at one buddy's house, play with their cube, another night be at another buddy's house and use their cube and have completely different experiences.
Edited by Orange_Soda_Man, Mar 28 2011, 08:12 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Cosmic Cube · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Marvel Comics Character Images, Character Names and Card Text Copyright 2009 Marvel Characters Ltd. and/or Upper Deck Entertainment, LLC. DC Comics Character Images, Character Names and Card Text Copyright 2009 DC Characters Ltd. and/or Upper Deck Entertainment, LLC.