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| proxies.... a game killer? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 8 2011, 03:12 AM (1,227 Views) | |
| Kwikee08 | Jul 8 2011, 03:12 AM Post #1 |
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was wondering if anyone else has had a situation simular to this one... my friends and i love the game but it seems like now more and more of my play group is wanting to proxy most of the cards if not all of them. while i can see the pro's to doing this such as it can save a ton of money to proxy cards that can cost you and arm and a leg for just one copy or to get that one card you just cant find to buy even if you wanted to... to me its just killing the game. i think that half the fun of any ccg is the collecting and finally getting that one rare you have been searching for... i know it shouldnt be that big of a deal to have proxy cards in a deck but it is really starting to get frustrating that i can put a week of work into trading buying selling just to get a deck even close to finished and then someone in the playgroup can simply print out whatever they want. it just makes it feel pointless to try anymore. it is almost to the point of just selling most of my collection to try and recoup some of my money. i know that ill still want to collect but honestly i dont see why i should put all the time effort and money into getting the actual cards when the rest of my playgroup isnt going to. dont get me wrong though, for the reasons above i can totally see people using proxies. while i try not to i dont mind to have my playgroup use them. its just when they get to the point of never wanting to buy another card since they can just print an entire deck off of their computer. i know im just venting but im curious if anyone else has had a simular situation in their playgroup. |
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| OnyxWeapon | Jul 8 2011, 03:23 AM Post #2 |
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Keeper of the Realm
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our events are all non proxy. introduce an "official-ish" event and you'll see them trading till the cows come home. every once in a while our events will allow a certain proxy that all players may use. for example, Mobilize. But general proxy use, while handy for testing or kitchen table play, is not permitted in any competitive event. it just sounds to me like you are a purist looking for a legitimate test while the others are content to print away proxies for whatever build they seek, with no thought towards competitive play. as i recall, our first local competitive event of sorts was simply some prepaid gift certificates and a few packs of cards. everyone paid 4 dollars a head so there was a vested interest in having the actual cards needed to play. At the time mobilize seemed an unfair advantage as our group collectively only owned 2 at the time so it was our only allowed proxy. maybe something simple like that is all you guys need. Edited by OnyxWeapon, Jul 8 2011, 03:25 AM.
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| conykchameleon | Jul 8 2011, 05:51 AM Post #3 |
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To me there are two different types of VS: "Real Life" VS, and theoretical VS. Theoretical VS uses proxies or MWS, and every card in the card pool is fair game. "Real Life" VS only allows cards that you can actually get your hands on. I think that both forms have their time and their place, but it's crucial that when you sit down across the table from someone (or in front of a computer), that you are both playing the same type of VS, no matter which one it is. |
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| Abyss | Jul 8 2011, 06:33 AM Post #4 |
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Depending on your group, I think that this is either a personal problem, or an issue you need to resolve with the group. Looking at my playgroup, proxies is the norm- even when people have the cards they need. Why? Because we have enough trouble just getting people to the games, let alone spending hours going through cards to get the ones they want. And it's understandable- most of the guys don't have the time and money to be in the collecting side of things anymore, that's something that's been and gone. It's to the point where most of them won't even take draft cards, because what's the point? Now personally, I came in after the game had died, so I'm fairly new, and I've still got some interest in the collecting side of things (and have the time to be). As such, I *try* and get the cards when I can, but even I'm not going to spend hundreds of dollars on a deck I'll play once a month, if that (and then there's supply issues as well). In these cases, you've really just got to get over it- others aren't willing to play the game your way, but chances are the other option is them not playing the game at all. Otherwise, you really need to find out why your playgroup is going that way- if it's because they are moving towards the above mindset, people just aren't as interested, or whatever. And then find out what, if anything, you can do about it to get people more interested into the collection side of things. And if you can't, well, can you really blame people? VS is a dead game, anyone still playing is likely doing it for fun, and for a lot of people that won't involve spending huge amounts of money. If you really need that collection side of things, and you can't get your play group to agree, it might be a case of having to look to get that 'fix' somewhere else. |
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| Ike E Bear | Jul 8 2011, 01:39 PM Post #5 |
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For the record, I'm in Abyss' playgroup. For me, the move to allowing proxies was all about inclusion and opening the game so it wasn't about "the most toys". We wanted to make it easier to play Vs, not harder. I'm fairly confident that I have the biggest collection of our group. I didn't want to be playing with my 4 x Mobilize, 4 x Savage Beatdown or 4 x whatever powerful rare fuelled decks against guys who didn't have access to the same. And it wasn't reasonable to expect them to try to get those older cards if they couldn't afford them or joined the game late (like Abyss). That doesn't do it for me. Another aspect is being in Australia it got very difficult to get the later sets. You had to import from overseas or do without. All that said, I do enjoy playing with and against real cards. At very least I prefer if proxies attempt to reflect real cards (scribbles on scraps of paper are definitely no fun to play against). Personally, I use my work's colour photocopies to copy my own cards (I have at least one of each card except for the final MEQ). They look very good. Edited by Ike E Bear, Jul 8 2011, 01:41 PM.
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| username | Jul 8 2011, 02:31 PM Post #6 |
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One of the better considerations we had during the time of MEV was to allow proxies for Mobilize and EoME. Though there were some who didn't agree on this, I simply saw this as an opportunity. This squeezed the brain juices of the newbies as well as those who never got a hand of those two cards. However, whenever there were 'official' events, proxies were not allowed. Also, we didn't accept proxies for any other cards. Personally, I liked the decision because proxies for Mobi and EoME meant that I didn't have to transfer those cards every effing time I build a deck. |
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| Drstrange | Jul 8 2011, 03:40 PM Post #7 |
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"It's to the point where most of them won't even take draft cards, because what's the point?" Auch... that honestly must suck hard. That is not really an attitude for a cardgamer, imo if you like to play a game why wouldn't you want to play it for real. I understand some proxies in any deck and wouldn't mind but over 50% proxied (and not just playtesting) I wouldn't bother. If you don't have the time and money for collecting but still want to play I bet there are plenty of people that have the cards to play with. I personally have tons of decks and even made decks with my cards on request for a playing budy. sure proxies of moneycards, MEQ or a couple cards in a deck can make it more fun to play the game. But the quoted attitude above would need some fixing :) personally I really dislike any kind of proxies in my decks, but that might be cuz 50% of the fun (if not more) for me comes from taking out a deck, siffing through it and playing a ghostmatch with myself (sounds lonely, but I like it really :D) and the real cards are more fun then ^^ |
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| CaptainCuba | Jul 8 2011, 04:20 PM Post #8 |
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Proxies serve many great purposes many of which have been mentioned in this thread already. Personally I have roughly 50-60 decks (about 30 of which are in various states of build) and although I own about a dozen or so Mobilizes there's no way I could ever own as many as I need for every deck. So I used my work printer and made 80 Mobi proxies, 80 Beatdowns, 40 Call in a Favors, and various other search cards. I've also started making custom themed versions of these staple cards to make my favorite decks more fun to play with. I do agree with one point though. If it is a MAJOR event (like the upcoming New Jersey Mega-Weekend) I think no proxies should be allowed. CC |
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| Ike E Bear | Jul 8 2011, 11:59 PM Post #9 |
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For a little extra context, we mainly see this happening for sets most of us have tonnes of already. Personally, I still want cards if I don't have four-of ... but if I have a playset then I'd rather someone else enjoy them. If no one else wants them, I still take them. I think that's pretty normal.
I don't see a big difference between a few proxies or all proxies. For me, it's just about having guys to play cards with. Proxies don't bother me in the slightest.
But that changes the playing experience for them. They can't fully design their own decks or are constrained by what the donor is playing themselves and is able to lend. And it takes some of the mystery out of what they are playing, which can be fun if you're bringing something innovative (we play the wackiest formats we can imagine).
Still can do that with proxies. Shrug. Further to the reasoning for allowing proxies, we play in real life. I don't think any of us play online (I tried, but being in a different half of the world to most of you guys made it too hard for a guys with a job and a family). If we want to enjoy fan made cards we HAVE to proxy. I respect other people's policies on proxies ... but I don't really understand them in the context of Vs being a commercially dead game. The biggest part of buying cards for me was to support my local game store and the game so that both would keep doing business so we can still enjoy our hobby. That's not an issue anymore. Shrug. Edited by Ike E Bear, Jul 9 2011, 12:02 AM.
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| bortrea | Jul 9 2011, 01:52 AM Post #10 |
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I'm pretty much in the same frame of mind as Mr. Ike E Bear on proxies. I've been with this game from the start. I love the thrill of the real card in my hand and prefer to collect and own what I can afford. I love the game and the cards. However, I love to play the game too. A good color proxy enables me to have a card I may never have four of. I have over 80 constructed decks that are ever changing, but while I have a playset of Mobilize, I don't have twenty playsets. Proxies cure that problem. Some cards I have one of, but I'd four. Proxies cure that. I'm married, and while I'd love to go wild spending without regard to limits, my wife has other ideas. Mind you that often saves me later when the bills come due. So my buddy that I play with on Saturdays play with as many real cards as we own 'cause we love the cards and are proud to show off our treasures. But we also fill in with proxies. We have a blast. We love VS. Sorry, we love variety, change, and possibility in our games. Varied formats, everything...fun is the theme, VS is the game and proxies are the salt that brings out the flavor.
Edited by bortrea, Jul 9 2011, 01:56 AM.
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| Dominator407 | Jul 9 2011, 02:00 AM Post #11 |
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I just want to say that Kwikee bought a printer today!!! lol I really enjoyed your posts, especially since I'm part of Kwikee's playgroup. |
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| J'onn J'onzz | Jul 9 2011, 03:54 AM Post #12 |
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Okay so i am also part of the play group. I started the whole proxie problem. I used the magic editor and made a kang deck. Except i changed every picture to a photo of the actor Jeff Golblum, and changed all text specific to his name. Thats right, Time-Blums, Cover-Blumes, its all Custom. Now im not going to stop getting actual cards. I own a full Morlocks, two X-men, a JLA ally, and my personal favorite, X-force. The problem is that ive spent nearly 70 bucks on X-foce alone, and i need at least 50 bucks more, since its all from Evolution and they are all so Farting pricey. I could trade, but i dont have anything people want. So yes im going to proxie 4 tech-organic and a couple of Moonstars. (I do have 2 Mutant Messiah Cables! WOOT) Other wise its just not as perfect as it could be. And i for one am tired of having to stun Iron Man 3 TIMES BEFORE HE IS DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I HATE THAT DECK lolololololol. |
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| Ike E Bear | Jul 9 2011, 05:23 AM Post #13 |
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How could anyone not think that's awesome? |
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| Dominator407 | Jul 9 2011, 05:31 AM Post #14 |
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Oh it was awesome! He picked some pretty crazy pictures too. Lol |
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| Kwikee08 | Jul 9 2011, 10:54 AM Post #15 |
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dang right i bought a printer lol... if ya cant beat em, join em |
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