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| Chain Question on Ricochet/Last Stand | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 28 2012, 02:25 AM (179 Views) | |
| Spi-Loc | Jun 28 2012, 02:25 AM Post #1 |
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Just had a noob question on chaining. Question 1: Opponent uses Fastball Special on a non-stunned character I control. In response i use a plot twist to recover Ricochet, does Fastball Special still go through? Question 2: I have three stunned characters, then I use Last Stand. In response, opponent KO's one of my stunned characters, Last Stand still goes through right? But Is it possible that after I evade my 3rd stunned character and assuming my opponent knows im going to use Last Stand, he KO's a stunned character in response to me evading my 3rd stunned character , can I still play Last Stand? and if so, will it still go through? |
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| Wallywest1988 | Jun 28 2012, 03:38 AM Post #2 |
Senior Member
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Question 1: You can chain recovery effects on Ricochet to negate cards that already attempt to target. Telepathic Suppression is a good example. It can chain in response to a targeting effect. (I am assuming it works like Telepathic suppression, 90% sure here) Question 2: Having three stunned characters is the condition in wich the card needs to be played. Even if they alter the number of stunned characters you have afterward. You have met the requirements for the card and it has been activated. If you flip 1 copy of last stand and then your opponent KOs a character the last stand is still met its requirements for activation and you could even respond with more copies before the character gets KO'd. |
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| Spi-Loc | Jun 28 2012, 04:07 AM Post #3 |
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Okay thanks! |
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| AlphaSilvr | Jun 28 2012, 04:14 AM Post #4 |
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Thing is, with question 1, if Ricochet is non-stunned, how are you recovering him? You wouldn't be able to recover UNTIL he becomes stunned. Basically, it would work like this: Ricochet is non-stunned. Opponent plays Fastball Special. You play Children of the Atom (Say he's crossed-over) <- This would not work as he is not yet stunned so CotA has nothing to target yet. Fastball Special resolves and stuns Ricochet. BUT this does work: Ricochet is non-stunned. Opponent plays Fastball Special. IN RESPONSE you use Ricochet's evasion. Evasion resolves: The Stunning is the payment so that doesn't need to resolve, but the auto-recover is now active. Fastball Special tries to resolve but is now illegal so it fizzles. Edited by AlphaSilvr, Jun 28 2012, 04:24 AM.
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| AlphaSilvr | Jun 28 2012, 04:17 AM Post #5 |
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For question 2, yes it works. If a card has "To play", "As an additional cost" or Boost, these are "abilities/costs" you pay to PUT the card on the chain. Once on the chain the game will no longer ask for these requirements. Rule of thumb, once an ability/card is on the chain, the only way to get rid of it is to negate it with another card. But in your example it can get tricky. Ex 1: You have 3 stunned characters and play Last Stand. Opponent plays Finishing Move on top of that. Since Last Stand is already on the chain, it resolves. Ex 2: You have 2 stunned characters in play. You evade a non-defending character. In response, your opponent, sensing a Last Stand is coming, plays finishing Move on top of the evade. Since Stunning the character is the payment, Finishing Move will go through. BUT you CAN play Last Stand on top of the Finishing Move, since you would have three stunned characters BEFORE Finishing Move resolves and knocks it to two. IF you wait to play Last Stand though until AFTER Finishing Move resolves, then it won't work as you don't meet the requirements to play Last Stand anymore. I hope this wasn't to complicated or convoluted. Edited by AlphaSilvr, Jun 28 2012, 04:22 AM.
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| Abyss | Jun 28 2012, 06:21 AM Post #6 |
Senior Member
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For number 1, he's considering if Ricochet is stunned, and they are trying to Fastball Special another non stunned character. Ricochet prevents characters with Evasion from being targeted, so if he recovers Ricochet, his text will become active. Anyway, the general rule is that a targeted effect has to be legal when you use it (Playing a plot twist, using an activated effect etc) AND when it actually resolves. In this case, once the Fastball Special resolves, it would no longer be a legal target. |
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| AlphaSilvr | Jun 28 2012, 01:31 PM Post #7 |
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@Abyss - Thanks for pointing that out. :P What I get for responding so late at night. :P @Spi-Loc - Sorry for the confusion. :P |
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| Canadian Bacon | Jun 28 2012, 02:41 PM Post #8 |
Senior Member
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Abyss already covered a couple of things I'm going to cover but I just want to reiterate a couple of things to clear up any misconceptions.If Ricochet isn't stunned, then the opponent can't play Fastball Special at all because there aren't any legal targets. In order to even put an effect on the chain, targets have to be chosen and they have to be legal. Again, if Ricochet isn't stunned, there is no legal target for CotA and you can't even play it as targets need to be legal to put the effect on the chain. As Abyss mentioned, Ricochet prevents effects from targeting your characters so even if the effect managed to get on the chain, at resolution the target would be illegal and the effect would be negated. A couple of things to mention here (in addition to those above that apply here as well): 1) I'm going to channel my inner slowmail here (old Vs head judge) to say that fizzle is not a game term. Effects are negated, not fizzled. 2) Fastball Special isn't negated. The effect's only targeting requirement says "target character" so the target is still legal. When Fastball Special tries to stun Ricochet (even if he didn't have his continuous modifier preventing targeting) it sees that he is already stunned and does nothing. That is different than being negated. As I alluded to above, this isn't true. The other way to negate an effect is to make all of its targets illegal at resolution, such as recovering Ricochet before it resolves. |
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| AlphaSilvr | Jun 28 2012, 03:02 PM Post #9 |
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Senior Member
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:P - Wow dropped the ball on that one. Sorry for that Spi-Loc. |
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| captainspud | Jun 29 2012, 04:40 PM Post #10 |
Senior Member
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For clarity's sake, here are the ways you can negate an effect:
And finally, remember that when an effect is negated, whether by explicit negation or by target invalidation, the entire effect is negated. Even if there is text that doesn't rely on the targeted portion (for example, if you had a plot twist that said "Draw a card. Target X-Men character gets +2ATK this turn." The card draw in this case doesn't rely on the target.), it goes down along with the rest of the effect. I think that's everything. Otherwise, CB's post covers all the key points. :) Edited by captainspud, Jun 29 2012, 04:41 PM.
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| Spi-Loc | Jul 2 2012, 02:11 AM Post #11 |
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LOL. It's alright, i usually make an effort to read Captainspud or Canadian Bacons reply first anyways. |
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| AlphaSilvr | Jul 2 2012, 03:13 AM Post #12 |
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Good Idea :D |
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