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"Coup d'Etat" & Boost?
Topic Started: Aug 23 2012, 09:58 PM (456 Views)
bungo_underhill
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When you pay an additional cost, such as boost, do effects that look for the recruit effects cost count that additional cost as part of the total?

Could I use Coup d'Etat to negate my opponents "boost 1" five drop by KOing my own five drop or would I need to KO my six drop?

Coup d'Etat
 
KO a character you control.
If you control Gorilla Grodd, negate target recruit effect if its cost is less than or equal to the cost of the character you KO'd.


What about the other way around? If my opponents 4 drop press guy only actually costs him 1 resource to recruit can I Coup him KOing a 1 drop, or do I need a 4 drop still?
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AlphaSilvr
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Coup d'Etat still works. Boost is an additional cost and does not add or subtract from the card's printed cost in any way.

As for the Press, you would still need to KO a 4-drop.

Quote:
 
203.2 If anything looks for a card’s cost, it uses the value printed in the upper left-hand corner of that card. If anything looks for an effect’s cost, it uses the value printed in the upper left-hand corner of that effect’s source.



EDIT: As far as I now, there is nothing in the entire game that affects the printed text of a card.
Edited by AlphaSilvr, Aug 23 2012, 10:55 PM.
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captainspud
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Under the rules for playing effects:
Quote:
 
505.1d The player determines the total cost for the effect, first substituting an alternate cost if one is used, then subtracting any cost reductions, and then adding any additional costs. Press is applied after all other cost reductions. Cost reductions are cumulative, as are cost increases. Costs can be reduced below zero during this determination, but after adding additional costs, if the numeric portion of the cost is below zero, that portion is treated as zero. (See rule 104.1.) The player then pays costs in any order.

So an "additional cost" gets bundled in with the original printed cost, and the recruit effect resolves with a final cost equal to their total.
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captainspud
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AlphaSilvr
Aug 23 2012, 10:53 PM
Coup d'Etat still works. Boost is an additional cost and does not add or subtract from the card's printed cost in any way.

As for the Press, you would still need to KO a 4-drop.

Quote:
 
203.2 If anything looks for a card’s cost, it uses the value printed in the upper left-hand corner of that card. If anything looks for an effect’s cost, it uses the value printed in the upper left-hand corner of that effect’s source.



EDIT: As far as I now, there is nothing in the entire game that affects the printed text of a card.
Yes and no. If something wanted to know the cost of a card, then you look at the card's top-left corner. But an effect is an ethereal thing not constrained to a card, and has no top-left corner to reference once it's placed on the chain.

This refers back to what should really be the very first rule of VS, and should be printed in bold, hot pink text on the first page of the rulebook, considering how often it comes up:

Quote:
 
505.4
Once an effect is on the chain, it exists independently of its source.


:)
Edited by captainspud, Aug 23 2012, 11:07 PM.
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infinity_matrix
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Spud is correct I believe,

Everything Alpha said is true except for how those things affect Coup D'etat.

Coup D'etat is not looking at the printed value but the cost of the recruit effect on the chain.

Therefore anything that modifies the cost of said effect changes the requirement for Coup D'etat to cancel it.
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bungo_underhill
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Does that mean Coup d'Etat can hit "Superman - Last Son of Krypton"?

As while the card doesn't have a cost, the recruit effect does (4)?
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captainspud
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That would appear to be the case, unless HC wants to drop in and explain why I'm wrong. :)
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HeroComplex
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I think people may be focusing so intently on the first sentence of the rule AlphaSilvr quoted that they're not really reading through the second one at all---but the second sentence is the one that actually applies, making AlphaSilvr entirely correct.

For curiosity/nostalgia's sake, I also took a look through my old e-mails and confirmed that 203.2's second sentence was added to the CRD after cards like Coup and 52 were created, and was specifically proposed in order to clarify that Press and Boost would not impact costs for recruit negation.
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captainspud
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And that's why we still need HC around here. :)

<-- likes learning new things
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AlphaSilvr
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bungo_underhill
Aug 24 2012, 02:55 PM
Does that mean Coup d'Etat can hit "Superman - Last Son of Krypton"?

As while the card doesn't have a cost, the recruit effect does (4)?
Just to clarify something. Since Superman does not have a cost, Coup e'Dtat cannot even negate him since Coup needs a cost and Superman says he doesn't have one, correct?
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bungo_underhill
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Thanks HeroComplex!

That is my understanding to AlphaSilvr.
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Biderman
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AlphaSilvr
Aug 24 2012, 05:11 PM
bungo_underhill
Aug 24 2012, 02:55 PM
Does that mean Coup d'Etat can hit "Superman - Last Son of Krypton"?

As while the card doesn't have a cost, the recruit effect does (4)?
Just to clarify something. Since Superman does not have a cost, Coup e'Dtat cannot even negate him since Coup needs a cost and Superman says he doesn't have one, correct?
I'm totally wingin' it, but I interpret Superman, LSoK not as having no cost, but simply as having an unknown cost. Just because of how the card id worded,"Superman's cost is not odd; Even; Or greater than, less than, or equal to ANY value..." I agree that Coup d'Etat would not work with LSoK, but I believe this is because, even if you KO'd another LSoK, it's cost also would not be "...equal to any value..."; therefore, they could never equal each other's cost.

I know I probably put to much thought into this, but it seemed cool. Although, sadly, even if I am correct (I don't know for sure, but it sounded good in my head. Anyone?), it is probably moot as the cost is found in the upper left corner, and LSoK just has border there.
:$
Edited by Biderman, Sep 10 2012, 01:04 AM.
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captainspud
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Biderman
Sep 10 2012, 01:03 AM
AlphaSilvr
Aug 24 2012, 05:11 PM
bungo_underhill
Aug 24 2012, 02:55 PM
Does that mean Coup d'Etat can hit "Superman - Last Son of Krypton"?

As while the card doesn't have a cost, the recruit effect does (4)?
Just to clarify something. Since Superman does not have a cost, Coup e'Dtat cannot even negate him since Coup needs a cost and Superman says he doesn't have one, correct?
I'm totally wingin' it, but I interpret Superman, LSoK not as having no cost, but simply as having an unknown cost. Just because of how the card id worded,"Superman's cost is not odd; Even; Or greater than, less than, or equal to ANY value..." I agree that Coup d'Etat would not work with LSoK, but I believe this is because, even if you KO'd another LSoK, it's cost also would not be "...equal to any value..."; therefore, they could never equal each other's cost.

I know I probably put to much thought into this, but it seemed cool. Although, sadly, even if I am correct (I don't know for sure, but it sounded good in my head. Anyone?), it is probably moot as the cost is found in the upper left corner, and LSoK just has border there.
:$
I have no idea what you're talking about.
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AlphaSilvr
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I believe that Superman has no cost what-so-ever. The text is there to clarify that effects that go off of cost do not do anything to Superman, LSoK. IMO

EDIT: I can kinda see what you are getting at... I think. Basically you are saying he DOES have a cost, but it's an unknown variable. So instead of a cost of 4, he has a cost of N. This makes it NOT an even or odd, or equal to anything else, it just is. I can see this, but I am sticking to my original statement. :P
Edited by AlphaSilvr, Sep 10 2012, 03:21 AM.
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