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Card wording question
Topic Started: Nov 3 2012, 08:01 PM (284 Views)
kariggi
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Which is the best or proper way to word this effect?

Cosmic: Remove Scott Free from the game -> Negate all effects targeting a character you control, return Scott Free to play at the start of the next build phase in your front row.

or

Cosmic: Remove Scott Free from the game -> Negate all effects targeting a character you control return Scott Free to play, at the start of the next build phase.

or

Cosmic: Remove Scott Free from the game -> Negate all effects targeting a character you control, at the start of the next build phase return Scott Free to play in your front row.

or

Cosmic: Remove Scott Free from the game -> Negate all effects targeting a character you control, at the start of the next build phase return Scott Free to play.

or something else? Is the specification of a location for the card to be returned to "front row" "support row" important?

Thank you as always, you guys/gals are like totally the best man.
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OMB
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Actually, it's none of the above. Row is only important if you want it to be, but since it comes back during build you'll have your formation step so it really doesn't matter either way. Personally, I wouldn't specify. That said option 4 is the closest but it's still not quite right. The clauses aren't connected, so separate them with a period.

Cosmic: Remove Scott Free from the game -> Negate all effects targeting a character you control. At the start of the next build phase, return Scott Free to play.
Edited by OMB, Nov 3 2012, 08:41 PM.
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kariggi
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You rock brother...thank you.
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bungo_underhill
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If you look at examples of these tyoe of abilities across Vs. Historu there doesn't see to be a consistent version. Fifth Dimension, Dodge the Bullet, deadgirl, Flying High...

Various instances of to play, into front row etc...
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OMB
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I just realized the 4 drop Deadgirl has a "different" name than the old 5 drop Dead Girl. Way to go UDE. At least they errata'd it according to the OCR. It generally seems that the older cards specify row while the newer cards just come back however you want.

One thing I do wonder with cards like Deadgirl and Flying High is if the character knows to come back under the proper control. For instance, if you were playing Team Superman against Secret society and on turn 6 they stole a character with Gorilla Grodd, attacked with it, and you played Flying High does it know to come back to the in play zone of its last controller? My assumption would be yes, but weird things happen. Also, the fact that Spider-Man, Zombie and Colonel America, Zombie specify that they come back into play under your control make me wonder even more.
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AlphaSilvr
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Another one those instances where UDE just said "screw it" and didn't really decide on one way to word the same abilities. :P Anyway... OMB's wording is really good.
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captainspud
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OMB
Nov 3 2012, 09:32 PM
One thing I do wonder with cards like Deadgirl and Flying High is if the character knows to come back under the proper control. For instance, if you were playing Team Superman against Secret society and on turn 6 they stole a character with Gorilla Grodd, attacked with it, and you played Flying High does it know to come back to the in play zone of its last controller? My assumption would be yes, but weird things happen. Also, the fact that Spider-Man, Zombie and Colonel America, Zombie specify that they come back into play under your control make me wonder even more.
I was sure that the game defaults to putting characters in play in their owner's play area, but when I looked up a rule for it, I found this under 214 - Entering Play:

Quote:
 
214.3 All cards enter play ready unless otherwise specified. The player physically places the card into play, making it an object, and processes any “enters play exhausted, ” “enters play stunned” (see rule 214.6), and/or “enters play with counters” modifiers. An object is controlled by the player who put it into play unless otherwise specified.


So, it looks like you can play Flying High on a stolen character without losing it.

My brain immediately jumped to worrying that this rule was overly broad (for example, if I play an effect that makes an opponent put a free character in play, do I control that character? ), but on further research I realized that it wasn't keyed off the owner of the effect-- it's keyed off the player who's instructed to put the character in play. So characters like Starfinger and 4-drop DCL Dr. Light don't end up breaking the game after all. :P
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OMB
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Fair warning kariggi; I'm officially hijacking your thread.

Spud, do these rules change anything?
Quote:
 
213.7a The removed-from-game zone represents the area of the game where players place cards that have been removed from the game by modifiers or costs. Each player has his or her own removed-from-game zone.
and
Quote:
 
213.1c If a card changes zones, it is no longer the same card, even if it returns to the previous zone. Any modifiers that would have affected it in the previous zone don't affect it in the new zone unless they specify that they do (but see rule 213.1d). An object that changes controllers or areas is still the same object. (See rule 700.3.) However, a card that moves between a resource row and a non-resource row (or vice versa) is no longer the same card, even though it hasn't changed zones.

213.1d If an effect's cost or modifier moves a card to a zone, or an effect triggers off a card entering a zone, and then a modifier from that effect later tries to affect that card, it can do so, but only if that card has remained in that zone continuously until then. This is an exception to 213.1c.

213.1e If a card changes zones and goes to a hand, KO'd pile, deck, or removed-from-game zone, it goes to its owner's version of that zone.
Here's Spider-Man, Zombie:
Quote:
 
Spider-Man, Zombie (MAA-026R)
Character, 4, Spider-Friends, 7/7, Range
[Activate], KO Spider-Man >>> Target player exhausts a ready character he controls. At the start of the recovery phase this turn, return Spider-Man from his owner's KO'd pile to play under your control. Use only during the combat phase.
Clearly he is intended to return to play under the control of whoever controlled him as his effect was played. However, here's the text of Flying High:
Quote:
 
Flying High (DCX-005R)
Plot Twist, 1
Play only if you control a [Team Superman] defender. <p> Remove from the game all attackers and equipment equipped to them, then the owner of each of those cards return them to play equipped with the same equipment.
This looks like it will return the character to the owner if it was stolen somehow. These are the only cards that are really coming to mind at the moment, but it seems to me (barring explicit instructions to the contrary) tricks that bounce characters between zones will restore control of a stolen character to its owner...

EDIT: I thought of two more cards.
Quote:
 
Red Shift, Rift Walker (MHG-018R)
Character, 5, Heralds of Galactus, 10/9, Concealed, Flight, Range
Cosmic: Whenever Red Shift attacks, you may remove all attackers and defenders from the game. If you do, the owner of each of those cards puts it into his front row at the start of the recovery phase this turn.
Quote:
 
Cold Storage (MUN-171R)
Plot Twist, 2
To play, remove a [Crime Lords] character you control from the game. <p> Ongoing: KO Cold Storage >>> Return that character to play exhausted.
Again we have different results. Red Shift looks like he will return all stolen characters to their owners' control, but Cold Storage will return a stolen character to the person who played Cold Storage provided that it has remained in its owner's RFG Zone by way off the exception in rule 213.1d. I guess the bottom line is that there is no general rule. The card will dictate what will occur.
Edited by OMB, Nov 6 2012, 04:18 AM.
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captainspud
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...yeah, I guess it would've helped if I'd actually read through Flying High's wording, huh? :P

I'd say you've got all three examples correct-- removing a character from play gives it to its owner, so the person who gets it on its return is down to card wording. If "its owner" returns it to play it resets, whereas if "that card" is returned to play, then it stays stolen.
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