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Council approved set... Big deal; Nobody really uses them in their decks or discussions
Topic Started: Nov 21 2013, 11:59 PM (1,654 Views)
OMB
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I think the biggest breakdowns with fan sets are in testing because it's the most boring and grinding part of the whole process and realistically unless you're logging at least a couple hundred hours of hardcore testing (and even testing while you build the set not just when it's "done") you're not going to have a product that is on a professional level. This is especially true of full sized sets. For starters/Essential Collections you can get away with mostly building the set before you do a lot of the testing since the number of cards is relatively small.

The other issue with most fansets I see is that they appear to be designed in a self contained way. That is there seems to be very little thought with how the cards will interact with previously existing cards in a golden age environment and how the new cards will impact existing decks especially in cases where you are revisiting teams that have already gotten official treatment. If you really want your set to get some broad traction you probably shouldn't be making stuff that just becomes busted when combined with the existing library of cards.

One last thing. Try not to make powerful generic/silver bullet cards. These cards suck and make the game bland. If you want to make something strong then please hit it with some serious team/legend stamping. Also, if at all possible, try not to beat a dead horse. If a team has already gotten two or more UDE treatments they really don't need any more cards.
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banstylejbo
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I haven't been around in forever and randomly decided to pop in today to see how the community was doing. I don't know how many of you all remember me, but "hi" to anyone who does. [grin]

Having lead and co-lead a number of the Council Approved sets (Marvel Factions, Marvel Warzone, DC Lantern's Light, DC Nightfall; not sure if any have been approved since), been a member of the Council, and having went through all of the turmoil surrounding trying to make Council Approved sets a scheduled thing, I know a fair amount of what went on and how things were left. The reasons I personally stepped away from the whole process were #1: Free time and #2: Fun.

The amount of time myself, Kevin (KardKrazy), and Aaron (Onyx) put in to make the sets happen was like having a second job. We went all out trying to completely replicate what UDE was doing. We created a card template that is incredibly near the real thing, researched exactly how UDE worded every aspect of the cards, spent months designing, looking up rules, importing cards into MWS, testing, making (what seemed like) endless edits and tweaks, scouring hundreds of comics for images and source material, coordinating with the printer to make physical copies, and trying to keep everything moving along with all parties involved. Eventually for myself life got in the way. Getting married and having to travel more for my job meant a lot less time I could devote. Then, first for Kevin, and later for myself, what originally was something we did for fun and creativity turned into a grind. Kevin stepped away from the projects and let me know he just wasn't engaged anymore. He wasn't finding joy in the process and just wanted to spend his time doing something he did enjoy. Aaron and I tried to soldier on, but for me the writing was on the wall. We basically got Marvel Galaxy completely created (design, graphics, etc), but where things stalled out was testing. That is where I left things and I'm glad Aaron has tried to get the set out there to see the light of day. I don't know what state the set is currently in, but when I left it there was still a lot of work that needed to be done to get the cards balanced. Aaron is a great tester, but one man can't do it all alone. I wish him and whoever else is assisting him all the luck in the world. [coolguy]

I spent a good two years of my life working almost every night in my free time on fan sets. It was fun for a time and I am very glad we were able to keep VS alive for the people who did play with the sets and who ordered the paper copies of the cards. It was a lot of work, but I look back on it fondly, even if I left things unresolved.

I know there is a lot of disdain out there for fan sets and some of you all have already touched on things I myself found out through the whole process. You'll never get all of the players behind something that isn't presented as a packaged product made my "professionals" (I use that term in quotes as I loosely regard UDE as professional in any sense of the word). We tried our best to give players the same feel from a fan perspective, but ultimately there are just somethings that aren't going to translate. I'm still proud of what Kevin, Aaron, and myself, along with a number of others, were able to accomplish. I wish any card designers out there all the best of luck and hopefully you'll find success the way we did for a time.
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bortrea
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banstylejbo
Dec 26 2013, 11:38 PM
I haven't been around in forever and randomly decided to pop in today to see how the community was doing. I don't know how many of you all remember me, but "hi" to anyone who does. [grin]...

...I know there is a lot of disdain out there for fan sets and some of you all have already touched on things I myself found out through the whole process. You'll never get all of the players behind something that isn't presented as a packaged product made my "professionals" (I use that term in quotes as I loosely regard UDE as professional in any sense of the word). We tried our best to give players the same feel from a fan perspective, but ultimately there are just somethings that aren't going to translate. I'm still proud of what Kevin, Aaron, and myself, along with a number of others, were able to accomplish. I wish any card designers out there all the best of luck and hopefully you'll find success the way we did for a time.
Banstylejbo, glad to have you make a guest appearance. It's always nice to have a celebrity on the thread commenting from relevant experiences. I for one am heartily looking forward to the release of the MGX set.

Anyways, thanks for visiting and chiming in.
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scottkthompson
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Ban lives! Hooray!
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SuperAzn
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Making new cards for sure seems fun and a cool idea but I didn't even know the names of The DC fan sets that were council approved until about 5 mins ago and I can only assume that most people on here also have that problem. On top of the fact that the fan sets were released way long ago and you're stuck making a proxy for a card that no one knows what it does :(

Is there a site I can look through all the fan made sets/cards? If not, IMO fan sets are just exclusive things for people around at the time.

Love VS but these days it seems like the game is all but dead minus a few circles. The council hasn't done anything since I joined this site, which I guess you could expect at this point, but then what's the point of the council? There are still tons of problematic things in golden age like the broke ass xVL 5 drops(lex and sinister) ruining games with effects that should be on 7+ drops. Maybe they're aren't stupid bad in top level GA play but I don't want to play the same 4 decks because everything else wants to go to turn 7+ but those decks all lose to those 5 drops instantly. The council should've made a casual GA ban list long ago IMO. And if the council has not real purpose anymore then it should be done away with. Anyone can pop in and help answer rules. And anyone can organize a tournament.
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bortrea
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Quote:
 
Is there a site I can look through all the fan made sets/cards? If not, IMO fan sets are just exclusive things for people around at the time.


Yes. Right here on VSsystem.org

Go to the section in the forum index entitled "Fan Creations". At the top of the list of threads is a pinned thread called "Quick Links to Important Threads".

It will list links to the offical Council sets, FAQs, documents, files, etc.

They have been there for along time. Please enjoy them and discover all the nice work. Also in the fan creation section are many wonderful fan set threads explaining all the many different projects and ideas fans have worked on.
Edited by bortrea, Dec 31 2013, 04:46 AM.
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Hank McCoy
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A welcome appearance by Mr Banstylejbo! Quick question for you if you are still around, what would need to happen for us to get a DC Nightfall Printable PDF File in the Council Approved section?
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SuperAzn
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bortrea
Dec 31 2013, 04:44 AM
Quote:
 
Is there a site I can look through all the fan made sets/cards? If not, IMO fan sets are just exclusive things for people around at the time.


Yes. Right here on VSsystem.org

Go to the section in the forum index entitled "Fan Creations". At the top of the list of threads is a pinned thread called "Quick Links to Important Threads".

It will list links to the offical Council sets, FAQs, documents, files, etc.

They have been there for along time. Please enjoy them and discover all the nice work. Also in the fan creation section are many wonderful fan set threads explaining all the many different projects and ideas fans have worked on.
Several of the links take you to an invalid request page Q_Q
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OMB
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It does look like a lot of the download links are dead unfortunately. If you just want to look through images of the cards you can check out KK's photobucket here: http://s15.photobucket.com/user/KardKrazy/library/?sort=3&page=1

Now it's possible there may have been some tweaks to some of these cards prior to finalizing/printing, but they're at least close. Also the MWZ set is nested very strangely.
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bortrea
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Also, the MFA and MWZ sets are in the VSS Advanced Search engine.
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ZKrom
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For What its Worth....Houston VS Players bought a fair amount of Council Approved Decks and those here who could not afford to buy them went ahead and printed thier own proxies and ALL of us LOVE them and PLAY with them regularly or whenever we can get together which isn't that often anymore because of time restraints and such....We all think the council did a AWESOME job and we appreciate it VERY MUCH and we look forward to more sets...if you lived in Houston you would have at least 2 stores to play VS at regularly...It's alive for as long as we want it to be...everytime I teach someone to play they fall in LOVE with the game...it's a DAMN SHAME UDE owns this game...a damn shame for sure...!!! Welcome back JBO...now all we need is Kard Krazy to say HEY :)
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prometheus
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About a year ago, OMB and I had started work on a Image Comics based set, that was turning out to be quite good, an Essential Collection. We had gotten pretty far in the development, but then I got busy with my duties as head of my game studio, and had to backburner "for fun" projects.

I'd love to submit what we had to to community and see if anyone wants to wrap up the set and get it into people's hands. Seems a shame for all that work to never see the light of day - there was some really, really great content there.

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prometheus
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Also, if anyone at all has made inroads into purchasing / acquiring the license for Vs., my company is more interested than ever in picking it up.
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BPRD_Agent
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I would love to see an Image essential collection! I'd also be happy to collaborate with someone on some new essential collection/mini-set if anyone is looking to work on something. Let me know!
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prometheus
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let me get back in touch with OMB and see if we can shore up the missing pieces of the set, and maybe submit it for a little playtesting.
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