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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 21 2013, 11:22:39 PM (30,876 Views) | |
| TruthTellers | Nov 19 2013, 03:34:27 PM Post #161 |
Barry Horowitz
  ![]](http://z5.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)
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^ I think that if I could get just one topic of conversation started with forum members is the usage of championships. I believe that WWE has misused them for quite some time by making them the only reason for two guys to fight over. If we had more of, "These guys are fighting because of so and so reason and, oh by the way, the (insert title) is on the line in this match also." Now it's, "This guy with a goofy smile constantly plastered on his stupid, stupid face is the champion after he won it in a match which lacked anything remarkable in it and nobody remembers and he won the belt for whatever reason and he's gonna defend that title against another guy with a generic scowl on his face or a guy whose cross eyed." Fuck Creative. Fuck the bookers. Fuck whoever is putting the junk on my LCD TV in 1080p. Every Raw now is just that LCD: Liquid Crappy Diarrhea. |
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I have fought some guys that weren't actually there and I beat them so bad they disappeared. -Roddy Piper | |
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| TruthTellers | Nov 19 2013, 03:43:41 PM Post #162 |
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Barry Horowitz
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I want to like Kane's Director of whatever spiel, I want to like the Wyatt-Best Beard feud, I want to like Triple H's ego ruining the product, I want to like seeing John Cena overcome the odds again, I want to like watching the Divas wrestle, and I want to like seeing Vickie's cleavage while she makes me cry knowing that WWE will never recover from what it's done to itself the past few years. The problem with all those things is Kane never delivers anything other than cringe worthy angles, the Wyatt's just don't make me feel anything and DB and Punk should be feuding against Triple H and Randy Orton, Triple H's ego is disgusting, I've already seen John Cena overcome the odds a million times, the Divas can't wrestle, and Vickie's cleavage is old. Is it the lack of drug use that makes WWE stink now? If so, I'll buy half the roster the first box of syringes if it can polish the turd the product's been turned into. |
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I have fought some guys that weren't actually there and I beat them so bad they disappeared. -Roddy Piper | |
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| Deleted User | Nov 19 2013, 04:52:13 PM Post #163 |
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Deleted User
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From very first moment Kane came out with his new suite, I knew nothing would have changed in terms of his actual persona. It seems that he has again been presented in the role of a comedy figure, unlikely to to actually deliver anything that can be taken in a serious manner. This feels like a shame, because I doubt Kane will be part of this company much longer, therefore WWE should utilize his strengths as a dominant figure before he moves on. This is not to say I haven't enjoyed some of the work he has accomplished with the likes of Bryan, where on occasion they delivered noteworthy segments with one another. However, it would be nice to witness Kane step back into a role that makes him come across as a legitimate figure/entity again. In regards to your qualms regarding non-title feuds, I feel it's simply something that WWE have distanced itself from over a certain period of time. While it's certainly not quite on par with the attention they were given many years ago, we have still occasionally been treated to some great feuds that have not relied on a championship as the main goal for the participants to attain (Instead, relying mostly on the rivalry and storytelling alone to push events forwards). For instance, the match between Punk and Lesnar definitely left its mark during this years Summerslam Pay-Per-View. It can be argued that most of the build for this particular encounter came solely from the work Punk and Heyman poured into it -- Although, I'm willing to bet the writers probably participated more than most people would have you believe. Though, just how much of this work stemmed from the creative team is quite debatable (If the former is true, it proves they can sometimes show quite a great deal of creative flair when given the right opportunity). WWE can show a lack of interest in delivering a quality product at times, but at this point I feel the fans will always overindulge themselves into finding flaws within the product, rather than talk about the more positive elements. Fans now treat WWE as though they are in a managerial role, inherently setting themselves up for disappointment, since their judgements are mostly based on the things they wanted to happen. Rarely ever treating the product from the standpoint of a mere consumer. |
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| TruthTellers | Nov 19 2013, 06:02:24 PM Post #164 |
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Barry Horowitz
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I think you misunderstood what I was saying about a titles role in feuds, I believe that feuds that involve titles should not be solely about the titles, but mainly about the backstory between the two participants; basically backstory first, title contention is a special bonus akin to that of those Arby's coupons where you buy the sandwich and get the fries and drink free. Today's WWE just throws people in and out of title matches to fill up time for a ppv which takes absolutely, POSITIVELY no creative thought whatsoever. Tommy Wiseau could do that and behind the scenes he probably is the head of Creative. Currently WWE pushes people they like instead of making good to high quality angles that involve those who can contribute to making good storylines. I know WWE is a business first and entertainment medium second and WWE occasionally gives us some "fanservice" but if WWE would embrace and strive for higher quality, the money will come no matter what. I don't know if Vince is still calling the day-to-day operations or if someone else is, but whoever it is needs to pass that duty along to someone else because it's just not working imo. Others here may get a hard on saying that Triple H's current role is immaculate and whatever the plans being made are utterly flawless in their creative origins and that we just need to wait for spectacular things at Wrestlemania that, imo, will never materialize. Some will praise Steph's breasts until they squeeze the last drop of their seed from their clearly aging prostate and wipe it onto their many WWE DVD's about WCW in the 90's, but the fact is that if a poll among fans was possible WWE's approval ratings would be near those of Obama's. Since we cannot do that, the television ratings will have to be the judge of the fans' opinion on WWE's current status, which is indicative of the reason why WWE is so heavily gunning for an elderly Hulk Hogan appearance during the Road to Wrestlemania. |
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I have fought some guys that weren't actually there and I beat them so bad they disappeared. -Roddy Piper | |
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| TruthTellers | Nov 19 2013, 06:04:27 PM Post #165 |
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Barry Horowitz
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Of course, there's nothing we can do about the virus plaguing WWE at the moment; all we can do is wait for the virus to burn itself out. |
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I have fought some guys that weren't actually there and I beat them so bad they disappeared. -Roddy Piper | |
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| Deleted User | Nov 19 2013, 07:44:28 PM Post #166 |
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Deleted User
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I didn't necessarily reply only to denounce the statement you made regarding the title feuds. Instead, I'm merely just expressing my viewpoint on the situation as a whole (At least from where I'm standing). Now, to discuss the properties of having backstory and if they are important to any given feud, can be quite subjective. On one hand, from a storyline perspective, I believe that a backstory can potentially add towards any given feud. While on another hand, the feuds that have lacked in storytelling have still benefited from just delivering great in-ring quality (Or rather, delivered great storytelling within the match itself). Such matches were quite prevalent back in the day. Owen Hart faced The British Bulldog in what some would consider one of the greatest RAW matches of all time. There wasn't much of a build, or a feud for that matter. Yet, somehow, these two delivered an in-ring story that probably benefited more from not introducing a feud into the mix. Because of this, they were able to focus on the in-ring material, without relying on the outside material to become 'over' with the audience. Because of how they went about the situation, the audience may not have had high expectations going into this bout, which could only lead to a surprise from the quality that was produced. I would be very happy if WWE decided to start going down this route once again, but just like with most things, the times change along with the standards. All I'm really trying to say here is that decent storylines do not necessarily make or break feuds. It really depends on what works and what doesn't. Shawn Michaels and Chris Jericho delivered an outstanding in-ring storyline during their encounter at Wrestlemania 19. In which the outcome worked beautifully, despite the lack of an outside build that was worth mentioning. Later down the line they finally found the right spark to set off a 'proper' feud, which became some of the best work I've witnessed from two superstars for sometime now. Consequently, the storyline built from this feud will probably be remembered more than the actual matches themselves. Everything just seemed to fit well during that feud, much like how their past encounters seemed to fit, despite the lack of outside storytelling. What people do not seem to realise is how the casual fans enjoy most of what will be showcased on any given night, despite what the hardcore fans may believe. WWE will always make money, no matter how bad the product does or does not become. Wrestlemania 29 was not what I would consider a 'well built' event, and became a major disappointment in the eyes of many hardcore fans. That did not stop it from becoming the most profitable event WWE have produced thus far. I'm willing to guess a higher percentage of people enjoyed the show over the ones who didn't. Why? They enjoy this form of entertainment for what it is... Entertainment. Unlike the hardcore fans, who will forever set their standards on a higher plane (Ultimately becoming disappointed because of the selfish ways they think of the product), casual fans accept what WWE delivers to them. They may only ever 'like' or 'dislike' what they see, but will never judge the product based on what they wanted to see happen. Most of us judge the product based on what we wanted to see happen. Everyone is guilty of this, even me. I doubt I'll ever change to just enjoy the product like I would with other mediums out there (Such as games, movies, and music). Sure, I'll complain about those from time to time, but I'm ALWAYS putting myself in a creative role when it comes to WWE. 'This guy should be pushed.' 'This guy deserves a championship shot.' 'The Intercontinental Championship needs to feel legitimate again'. Those sorts of terms were non-existent back in the day. No hardcore fan walked around using the terms 'heel', 'face', 'pushed', 'jobbing', 'kayfabe', 'over' (Ect). Wrestling and its fans have developed together in such way, that it has become one of the most criticized forms of entertainment, full of people who take on the managerial role. Whether this is due to the amount of freedom we have been given to express our opinions since the rise of the internet, the over saturation of inside news and spoilers from wrestling related products (Helping people determine what was or was not a good idea before it has even happened), or whether it's just some strange phenomenon that only comes from being a wrestling fan; Could be something we may never understand. |
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| ToTheBank | Nov 20 2013, 09:41:32 AM Post #167 |
Mr. Perfect
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The "virus" you talk clearly is Daniel Bryan... Everything has gone to shit when he began to become popular... stupid goat... im totally kidding of course you know what i just realized... WWE has made a point to call DB a GOAT GOAT= Greatest Of All Time... tehehehehe |
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| Deleted User | Nov 20 2013, 04:38:00 PM Post #168 |
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Deleted User
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| ToTheBank | Nov 21 2013, 02:53:30 AM Post #169 |
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Mr. Perfect
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Nice photo, hahaha |
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| Pure | Nov 24 2013, 10:13:29 PM Post #170 |
Brock Lesnar
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| Pure | Nov 25 2013, 02:43:48 PM Post #171 |
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Brock Lesnar
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| Deleted User | Nov 25 2013, 03:34:16 PM Post #172 |
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Deleted User
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lol unicycle |
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| Pure | Nov 26 2013, 07:56:49 PM Post #173 |
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Brock Lesnar
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| Pure | Nov 29 2013, 02:48:44 PM Post #174 |
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Brock Lesnar
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| TruthTellers | Nov 30 2013, 12:19:46 AM Post #175 |
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Barry Horowitz
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I recently rewatched the 2 ppv's I bought this year: WM29 and MitB. I figure I might as well rate them first. WM29: Shield vs Orton, Show, and Sheamus- ***1/2 Ryback vs Mark Henry- ** Team Hell No vs Big E and Ziggler- *1/2 Fandango vs Y2J-*1/2 Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger-** CM Punk vs The Undertaker-**** Triple H vs Brock Lesnar-** John Cena vs The Rock-** Overall WM29 was a forgettable show. While the opening bout featuring the Shield who, imo are the tag team/stable of the year, was good, and the Punk-Taker match was great, the rest of the show just came up lame. While I enjoyed the Ryback-Henry match and that DB didn't get screwed out of another WM, everything else was not good. During Y2J-Fandango, I was left questioning why the hell this match was even on the card. I can understand Y2J in a Mania, but to job to Fandango, who, in hindsight, is a wrestling waste product with how absent he is from Raw, is disconcerting. Seriously, he's in the same boat as Tons of Funk, Wade Barrett, and Zack Ryder; that's not a good company to be in and the fact that a Y2J match at Mania was wasted on Fandango when the year prior he was just makes me not like it one bit. The match was also questionable because the two seemed to be putting as many moves into the match as possible, as though they were rushing to do as much as possible with the time they were given. Usually high workrates are commendable and worthy of praise, but this one strikes me as odd. It was a boring match, just like this ppv. The WHC match was not something I liked watching because it should not have happened as Jack Swagger was recently arrested for DUI and possesion of weed. It should have stopped there, and a #1 contendor's match named a new wrestler to face Del Rio for the WHC, which should have been Mark Henry who could have returned to dominant heel again. However, WWE just can't help but push Del Rio, so we got this match instead. The build was cringeworthy as it featured a new manager in Zeb Coulter who relentlessly attacked Del Rio for being Mexican. Mixing politics and wrestling is a bad idea, just ask Bob Backlund... or Linda McMahon. The match was meh, it wasn't really given enough time to develop into anything, much like all the other undercard matches. I was hoping for more from this match when I first saw it and it failed me as WWE usually does. Punk-Taker was the MOTN with the Undertaker again proving he still has it and Punk telling a great story in the ring. The action was fast paced and exciting, unlike the WWE Championship match. The story was great, unlike the Lesnar-HHH match. The fan reaction was great, unlike the snoozefest that Lesnar-HHH was. This is the type of match that all other matches at WM29, excluding the opener, should have been: good instead of good enough. Lesnar-HHH was the fruitcake of Wrestlemania 29: it could have been more, but nobody really wanted it in the first place. The yearlong Lesnar-HHH feud seemed to exist solely to satisfy HHH's ego than to really entertain the fans; after all, how else could you explain why it had to be on the card for 3 ppv's? Why did HBK have to be involved? Because he has to be at every Maina that HHH is in to keep telling HHH, "Paul! You're not better than me! So stop it and give this time to somebody else!" to keep HHH going? Heyman had attacked Trips and Steph's relationship for months, so wouldn't it have made more sense for Brock to attack Stephanie and break her arm, or to keep it PG, F5 her through a table? It seems that ever since Triple H took this authority role after his last loss to Undertaker at Maina, everything he's touched has been the touch of death. The match between him and Lesnar is no exception. The match between him and Lesnar was so boring, I sat through most of it live asking, "WTF is going on?" Answer: Nothing. It was Triple H feeding his ego and doing his best Cena impersonation. "I'm gonna get my ass kicked for most of the match and then I'm gonna come back and beat the shit out of the former UFC Heavyweight Champion." Brock ended up pulling out the same moves over and over again, belly to belly and german suplex's. Yeah, Trips career was on the line, but just like the Taker-Punk match, you knew who was going to win. What hurt the match the most was that the crowd was not into it at all. They had been treated to a fantastic Taker-Punk match just minutes earlier and to follow a Taker match with Triple H was a sight to shiver at. Hopefully this next Mania will be the last Mania we see Triple H wrestle in, but that likely won't be the case. So, to follow up the HHH-Lesnar piss, shit, and sandwich break, the main event for the prestigious WWE Championship featuring a kick boxing match between "Mr. Five Moves of Doom" John Cena against "The Hollywood Star" The Rock. As you can expect, there was a lot of punching and kicking in this match. The Rock weighed down Cena, not that Cena doesn't do a lot of that to himself, but here it's painfully obvious that the Rock should not have been involved in a match for the WWE Championship nor should he have ever been booked to beat Punk and end his streak at the Rumble earlier this year. While it is extremely commendable and praiseworthy that the Rock continued to wrestle after tearing his abdominals off his pelvis, he wasn't conditioned enough to wrestle for the amount of time he did. There was a lot of punching, slapping, kicking, and rest holds in the match, the main event at Wrestlemaina, in 2013. This would have worked if it was 1991, but it's not 1991 anymore no matter how hard I wish it was 1991 back when we didn't live under a socialist dictatorship. It pains me to say this guys, as a child of the Attitude Era who loved The Rock, but I have to say this: I wish the Rock had never come back. WWE royally botched his return by pushing it to WM28 when he should have faced off against Cena at WM27. But as usual with WWE, they are always a year behind the times. This Wrestlemania is about 20 years behind and as such gets a 5 out of 10. Edited by TruthTellers, Nov 30 2013, 12:20:19 AM.
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I have fought some guys that weren't actually there and I beat them so bad they disappeared. -Roddy Piper | |
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| Pure | Nov 30 2013, 12:44:49 AM Post #176 |
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Brock Lesnar
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I really didn't like Fandango Vs. Jericho either. I was at this live and yeah, even then it wasn't that great. |
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| TruthTellers | Nov 30 2013, 01:10:06 AM Post #177 |
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Barry Horowitz
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Money in the Bank: WHC MitB-**** Curtis Axel vs The Miz-* AJ Lee vs Kaitlyn-** Ryback vs Y2J- **1/2 Dolph Ziggler vs Alberto Del Rio-*** Mark Henry vs John Cena-*** WWE MitB match-***1/2 Firstly, I skipped the Miz-Axel match and only watched the part of the AJ-Kaitlyn match where Kaitlyn had a nipple slip. In any event, AJ-Kaitlyn was a better built, better performed match than anything Miz and Axel could do on PCP in a Texas Deathmatch. WOW! Was all I could say after the opening WHC MitB match. This is one of the top 5 ladder matches I've probably ever seen in my entire life up there with both TLC matches of the early 00's, the Jericho-Beniot ladder matches of the early 00's, and a couple other MitB matches. I loved everybody's role in this match, including Fandango, but especially Cody's and Dean Ambrose's. The Real Americans were also class in this match and added to the brutality of it. Everything about this match was great and if there was one match I wish to see an encore of this year, it's this one and the Punk-Cena match of 2/25 Raw. I look forward to see these 7 guys in a ladder match again someday. Ryback vs Y2J was a decent little undercard match. Didn't really have much of a build other than Y2J sneak attacking Ryback for whatever reason, I assume because Ryback isn't as awesome as Jericho is and Jericho wanted him to know it. This match was much better paced than Jericho's previous match at Mania with Fandango and I believe this match shows us that Ryback does have a place in WWE and does have the potential to be a perhennial main eventer. He fits with WWE and while he looks like a meathead and probably is a meathead, I wish him the best of luck. Not a bad match, but nothing memorable. Why the hell is Ziggler not being pushed!? Why the hell was he buried via an AJ Lee-Big E Langston pairing which was broken up in no time? And why the hell was he teamed up with Big E just a few weeks ago after being beat down by him weeks earlier? WWE obviously doesn't know how to handle the Show Off, but the fans do: cheering him to the ends of the Earth. The crowd was so pro Ziggler that it was hard to believe that WWE didn't book him to win in Philly to keep his feud with ADR going. Instead, we had to witness the burial of Ziggler and watch ADR infest our tv screens for another few months. I swear to god Del Rio is the Mexican John Cena aka Juan Beaner, but instead of winning his matches clean using the same five moves every time, he just retains whatever strap is on his waist via DQ and runs out of the arena like the Border Patrol is right behind him asking for his green card. Anyway, the match was good, very good, but it suffers from the same unfortunate booking that every Juan Beaner match becomes: by being a DQ and Beaner keeping the title. So, Beaner kept the belt and went on to bore every fan into submisiion, Ziggler got buried like he'd just raped the bosses daughter in the ass with a baseball bat when his only crime was that the fans loved him too much, and AJ Lee is still fat. Mark Henry and John Cena for the WWE Championship match was unfortunately predictable, but was still good nonetheless. Henry as a super heavyweight heel can put on a performance that only guys like Vader and Bam Bam Bigelow could follow. While Henry can't go for more than 15 minutes due to his size, what he can put into those 15 minutes and the story leading up to the match is a gem that few others can accomplish with the time that Henry's usually given. Translation: Henry makes the most of everything he does and it's always a spectacular result. The match was worthy of being a WWE title match and it also shows how well Cena can make his opponent look now matter what skills he posses. Cena may not be able to put a broom over per se, but he could make people watch it and say, "Alright." Cena pulls his usual schtick by getting whooped only to go Super Sayian and get the WSM to tap out. If John Cena was dead, CM Punk retired, Randy Orton fired for wellness violation no. 3, Juan Beaner was deported, Sheamus was injured, Big Show was still Stephanie's man servant, and Bryan was buried, Henry would be the face of the WWE. Henry should be given a chance to be WWE champion for a few months and see how it goes. The main event of this ppv, the WWE MitB match. It featured the return of RVD to the WWE after a several year abscence, and featured many stars who were former WWE or WHC champs. All in all it was a fine match worthy of being a MitB match. However, the interference by Heyman which led to a never ending feud between Punk and him detracted from the overall longevity of the match's memory and the Orton victory keep this from being anything more than a ***1/2 match. MitB is easily one of the best ppv's of the year right up there with SummerSlam. I would recommend that everyone see this ppv before the year is over. 8 out of 10. |
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I have fought some guys that weren't actually there and I beat them so bad they disappeared. -Roddy Piper | |
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| TruthTellers | Nov 30 2013, 01:11:20 AM Post #178 |
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Barry Horowitz
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Thank you. Y2J's entrance was the best thing about that match. Now prepare for the wrath of pokajabba to come down upon you. |
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I have fought some guys that weren't actually there and I beat them so bad they disappeared. -Roddy Piper | |
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| TruthTellers | Nov 30 2013, 01:12:08 AM Post #179 |
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Barry Horowitz
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Pure, how did you feel about Lesnar-HHH? |
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I have fought some guys that weren't actually there and I beat them so bad they disappeared. -Roddy Piper | |
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| Pure | Nov 30 2013, 01:14:30 AM Post #180 |
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Brock Lesnar
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He'd probably be more heated (And a lot of other people too) to hear that I thought his match with CM Punk at WM28 was pretty "meh" too (Not as bad as WM29 though. Not even close lol). |
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